[00:00:00] Nadiyah Rajabally: Hi everyone, and welcome to another interview for our Careercon Monthly and today we are diving into ai. Now, today for my interview, we're gonna be doing AI in the Future work, and I'm lucky to have Drishdey who is a startup founder for TEXpert AI and she's also a parent, so she can give some insights. on a parent's view as well.

So Drishdey, do you want to introduce yourself and what you do?

[00:00:34] Drishdey Caullychurn: Hi everyone. Hi Nadiyah. I'm Drishdey. I'm the founder and CEO of TEXpert AI. We help companies measure social and governance factors, um, encompassing diversity, equity, and inclusion, labor standards, human capital, as well as policies that they have in place.

We bring that information up to asset management level to help those companies attract the right sort of capital. Um, speaking about impact capital mostly.

[00:01:05] Nadiyah Rajabally: Cool. It sounds so interesting. So what do you think are the emerging career paths and job roles created by the investments in AI technology?

[00:01:14] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah, well, yeah, the different career paths, obviously data science and artificial intelligence remains the key one.

Um, I know a lot of people might be thinking because we've got chat GPT, we've got generative AI, so, uh, potentially there's no need for coders anymore. I mean, we use it extensively, but whoever's using it knows that we still need to do some work with it. So these are role models. large language models, ChatGPT.

They can't be applied directly in a specific scenario in an enterprise case, for instance. There's always some sort of fine tuning, Be it, uh, retrieval augmentation or writing prompts or some sort of activity that needs to be done with, uh, these large language models, uh, including, uh, generative AI before they can be applied, um, in a problem solving, uh, case.

So, uh, obviously data science, artificial intelligence remains the, um, the main career path that I would suggest everyone to actually have a look and try and see what they can do this.

[00:02:21] Nadiyah Rajabally: Yeah, definitely. And obviously touching on like skills, what type of skills do you think are important from a young person's perspective, or anyone that's listening right now, what skills do you think are important while you're working with AI that you need to build?

It's, it's a very,

[00:02:35] Drishdey Caullychurn: it's a very good question. So I will potentially depart a bit from the world of algorithms and all of that to actually say that the most important skill is, um, To be, uh, to be able to adapt because, uh, obviously algorithms, AI, generative AI, all of this is going to change the way that we work, uh, the types of jobs that we're doing, the work structures, it's not going to be nine to five.

And we've already seen a lot of changes in this space, not only because of, of AI, but also. You know, just COVID itself changed a lot of things. So I believe like being able to adapt to change is one of the main skills. And we actually have no idea how we will respond to this. So are we going to be okay, not having jobs or doing different jobs or actually learning every single day and doing something new every single day.

So this will put a lot of stress on, um. You know, young workers, which makes me think as well, like another important career path would really be healthcare and neuroscience, because as I see what we're kind of moving from a globalization era. To something more like, uh, call it like a generative, uh, era, if you want, not only because of generative AI, but also because of the emphasis on sustainability in general.

So sustainability, um, really actually is, is being embedded in each and every business. If you think about how we've been doing things and the globalization. Era, it's really kind of savage development, isn't it? Um, but now we're going back and we're trying to do things more sustainably And I believe sustainability is another big big career path as well.

So If anyone who wants is thinking about joining finance or even something at the intersection of technology and finance Sustainability is really, uh, is really kind of dominant in, in, in, in that space, essentially.

[00:04:50] Nadiyah Rajabally: No, definitely. Yeah. And it's super interesting. I would like adaptation. Yeah, definitely.

And especially when you're working for staff. So obviously when there's like start up and adapting, everything's always changing. And even like, With it, like obviously you're in the AI industry and views obviously constantly changing with tech and everything, so just like keeping up with all of that. So we'll see with the use of AI driven recruitment tools, obviously it's changing the process and the hiring process.

So what should job seekers know about them and how is TEXpert AI addressing under representation in the workplace?

[00:05:21] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah. Okay. So that's a long question. If I miss any part of it, just kind of, uh, remind me, um, yeah, the use of recruitment tools, uh, AI, uh, in, you know, recruitment tools is very, um, it's, it's something very debatable at the moment.

Um, to be honest. It has a very good application. You have to go through a lot of CVs and the best tool to use this is algorithms, right? So we can do anything repetitive, better, faster than human beings. So obviously it has a big use case, but Just using, uh, algorithms like that or AI or any large language model and building on top of this, uh, a wrapper model is not sufficient anymore because those wrapper models, they are still carrying on with existing biases that the large language models have.

Um, you know, and those biases might not be intentional. Just think about how, you know, structural imbalances that we have. If you look at tech, for instance, there's only. Roughly 20 percent of the tech workforce, um, is female. So it's a structural imbalance. If you want to go, you know, really down to why it's like that, there are multiple reasons, but that's the situation where we're living in.

So that's your data was, will also be representative of that percentage. So you will always have, let's say 20 percent female CVs and, uh, 80%, um, you know, male CVs. So let's just put it like that as simple as that. So this imbalance gets, fed into algorithm and turns into algorithmic biases. So any minority groups will be slowly kind of forgotten in that when, when the model is actually being trained and that leads to algorithmic biases.

So, um, anything that any association with that minority group will be forgotten, uh, by the algorithm. And it's not going to be reflected in the decision making, which is crucial. So it will always be. Uh, bias towards, um, biased against minority groups, uh, whichever group it is, um, it's very situational in that sense.

So it is not sufficient to just use algorithms the way they are, or AI the way it is in recruitment. You need to have a de biasing layer. Before you can use it, uh, safely. And it's not only because it's nice to have, it's also because the EU AI Act now has actually coined, um, not really coined, but has, uh, classified.

Um, you know, the use of AI in recruitment as being a high risk use. So high risk means more due diligence. So you have to check how your data is being fed. You have to check what debiasing, uh, precautions you've been taking. So just using AI and applying it in a recruitment, um, situation is not enough. Um, that's where we are.

Yeah,

[00:08:26] Nadiyah Rajabally: no, definitely. And it's interesting hearing from you. He's obviously got your own AI platform that's doing this. Also hearing that you still need that human element as well. You can't just rely on AI. And I think a lot of people forget that. They think that companies are just relying on the AI tech itself and not thinking that actually, no, we're also got the human side, because obviously you have a responsibility to make sure that everything coming through it is all relevant and fair.

So yeah, it's good just hearing that point from you as well. And obviously, um, when we're talking, you mentioned that, um, you're a parent, um, and you've got a young son, and obviously it would be great to hear from obviously a parent perspective, what your thoughts are and how you stay updated and what your thoughts are being a parent on obviously your child coming to a career that's driven by AI and all this new technology.

I want to learn more from your point of view and your thoughts and any advice you can give other parents that might be a bit worried and concerned.

[00:09:21] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah, well, yes, I'm excited and worried at the same time. So, uh, it's a bit of a, you know, uh, mixed feelings, but I'm excited because it opens up, um, you know, so much opportunities and, you know, if you're not spending time doing repetitive tasks, when I, First joint, my first job was really, you know, admin work.

I think we've all started some with something like that. Um, and I hated it so much. I hated it so much that I worked really hard to get out of it. And, uh, yeah, I managed to do it, but. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone to go through this whole load of, of admin repetitive sort of task. Um, so I'm excited that the next generation would probably skip that, uh, you know, um, that first layer of, of, um, kind of meaning mindless and not really meaningful work.

Um, but on the other side, like When I think about, um, children, um, these days, and when I'm working, working directly with algorithm. So it's just an opinion, but I'm thinking like, you know, it's really the crappiest versions that's being exposed to our children. So. We're not even sure whether this is how the data is getting there.

We don't know, um, you know, whether this is actually compliant with, with certain regulation. We don't even, we haven't even done an assessment to see what is the impact. So it's like the crappiest versions are getting fed to the most, you know, vulnerable group of people. At such a tender age, and this scares me a lot when we are kind of constructing AI, like models, uh, you know, just use them to be honest.

So we go through so many layers of, of, uh, due diligence in ourselves, data governance, because we are actually applying it in an enterprise setting. It's a very different AI and enterprise setting AI, like how we use charge, which is very, very different. Um, so there's no treatment for hallucination, no treatment for, uh, toxicity, there's nothing like that.

And we're exposing our children to this. So I'm extremely concerned with respect to this, because it seems like they are being used as, uh, you know, they're just being used, uh, as, um, a test. Like, you know, they're, they're just being tested upon with, uh, they're the first users and, um, they are the young people that can't actually make a decision for themselves.

It's, it's really, um, concerning for me.

[00:12:12] Nadiyah Rajabally: No, definitely. And you're right to be concerned about all these things, because it's true. I feel like they're exposed to only a small part of it. And when there's like a bigger picture, and like obviously so many people are using different parts, but they don't even exist.

Like the things that you mentioned today, I'm like, I had no idea there was a different part to it. And looking at AI tools from a different perspective, I think it's important. Um, that's why I wanted to get you on as well to talk from your perspective as a parent, but also from having your own AI startup and seeing from a different perspective, so parents and young people listening, anyone else that's listening can see and understand that there's so much more to AI and for the future work and how we need to collaborate and work together and make sure that even if we are exposed to these different tools, we know what's right and what's wrong and we need to make a decision.

Where we're responsible ourselves and making these decisions and know what we need to do with them, how to use them. And you kind of touched upon this, but I want to dive a bit more. So what are your thoughts on how schools are preparing young people to future work, especially with these AI tools like ChatGPT and other stuff?

[00:13:17] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah, that's interesting. I'm, well, from a personal experience, uh, school doesn't seem to be a big fan of chat GPT, and I can understand why, because students are not using it in the best way, so they're actually using it to do their homework. And obviously data coming from chat GPT is not very reliable. We all know this.

Um, you know, if you. If you have like in depth knowledge about something and, and you go and you search about that, you'll be able then to discern the differences of how much there is in ChatGPT. Sorry. I've used the B word, but yeah, but yes. So, um, it's very, um, it is very kind of a, a tricky, uh, situation when it comes to school and there's.

There's another way of thinking about this, um, you know, the AI models that are out there, they are only as good as what we have put out there. So it's very dependent on human intelligence. If I can just give you like an example, I, yeah, I was in, in Davos. a couple of years ago. It's the first time I've been there and I couldn't help but notice there's a whole research facility that studies snow.

And I was like, wow, sitting here in London, I was like, is this really necessary to kind of do this study, whole research facility? Then if you're in Switzerland, it makes sense. So what I'm thinking is, If we focus too much on just technical skills, then we're not creating that breadth of disciplines that will eventually create the patterns, the diversity in patterns and the human intelligence to kind of teach those algorithms to generate something better than us.

So we're going to end up with just having dumb algorithms. So. School needs to be focused on how they complement every discipline with technology, but never have it as a, as a trade off. Like, you know, if we're not going to be, uh, focusing on, let's say, um, creativity anymore, we're going to just be technical.

So that sort of, of trade off is very dangerous.

[00:15:41] Nadiyah Rajabally: No, definitely. And that's really important. And that's why one of us, I got one of our speakers today, who is, um, a teach head of digital and AI at a school. Um, and he's talking about how he's trying to use AI and like chat GPT and making sure it's ethical and using in the classrooms.

Um, which obviously you don't hear many schools and colleges do so then here his perspective how he's pushing that and there's like And I feel like yeah Definitely some schools are using and some schools aren't and those that might be using it or starting to use it Isn't using it in the way that they should be And like you said, it then causes issues because then obviously your thoughts change, especially at a young age, you start thinking differently.

And if you're too focused on technical skills, you miss out on the soft skills that you need in the workplace. Because not all jobs are all technical, you need a balance, and I think it's important. So what, um, so, Soft skills. Well, I think they don't call it, refer to soft skills anymore. Um, but what are the key skills that you think are important for a balance to make sure it's a mixture of technical and soft?

[00:16:43] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah. Well, in terms of soft skill, well, you know, the, the new, I'll say like the new generation is, is very different. So it's really, um, I'm going to go back to my first, um, answer, which is the only skill I can think of in my head is adaptability. Okay. Um, definitely need that. And it's very hard as simple as it is, maybe just one word.

We find it hard when we're going to a new job, we find it hard when we're going to new school. We find it hard to adjust to a new. Let's say work hours. Uh, we found it hard to work remotely and then we find it hard to go back to office. So this soft skill of being super agile with yourself and to be able to literally be like a chameleon is, is what's needed with the upcoming generation, because it's like a highly unpredictable environment that we will, that we're moving into, um, and you know, more so for the next generation.

[00:17:47] Nadiyah Rajabally: Yeah, definitely. And I feel like, yeah, I don't think people realize how much that skill is so important to be able to adapt. Like you said, like, people don't really like change. I mean, I don't think anyone likes change. And I think you need to be adaptable for anything you do, whether it's a new job or going to a new career path, a new industry.

Change is always happening, but when you get comfortable, get used to being adaptable, then it becomes so much easier. Yeah, no, that is a very important skill when you think about it. Um, so Drishdey, it's coming almost the end of our interview. It's been so interesting talking to you. So I wanted to know, obviously, um, back to being a parent, um, and obviously your, um, teenager's, um, future.

I wanted to know, Wanted to learn more about what your thoughts about obviously how governments, employees and educators can help address obviously work experience, because obviously work experience is quite a big issue. Um, in, in the UK, it was 64 percent that can't even access work experience and obviously preparing them for the future work and their career preparation in schools.

How do you think these concerns could be addressed by, obviously, educated employees and governments? What advice would you give?

[00:18:56] Drishdey Caullychurn: Yeah. So, well. Talking about, um, from a startup founder perspective, we obviously work with a lot of interns. Um, that said, um, all of our interns are, you know, MSC like, uh, sometimes postgraduate level.

So even being a startup, this is the level that we're taking in terms of interns. I think we need to start. Kind of open up opening up our horizons. Um, if we get some help from the government to help and train even younger Workers, so I think that would be something I mean it will take its own time We are very kind of time constraint as you would know yourself but If we have the right resources and the right framework in place, uh, potentially having some sort of oversight and monitoring from the government itself.

And, uh, that would help us as startups. We've got a lot of startups in the UK, um, to actually get a bit of exposure of that, you know, they call it that VUCA world, which I'm talking about and what we need. The, the next, uh, kind of generation of workers to experience is really that entrepreneurship, the sort of, um, environment is to be able to change every single day.

I mean, I've worked both in, um, you know, in a corporate setting and as a founder. So I kind of know the distinction between the two and I see the value that as well, um, definitely that would be something that I would, you know, entertain. Um, right now we do it voluntarily, so we have, but it's not, you know, the best structure we can put in place because we're just a startup.

We obviously always, uh, resource constraint, time constraint. So this is something that's, it's always like that. So we try and do our best. If someone wants to learn, we always keep the door open. So whether they want to do some work shadowing, we have just got a request for that, um, and I need to actually see and assess whether how we can help that happen.

Um, so if a person doesn't have a degree yet, and I want to entertain that I want to expose younger students to this environment. So that makes them kind of prepares them for what's going to happen next.

[00:21:25] Nadiyah Rajabally: No, definitely. And that's lovely to hear because obviously like, obviously I want to know as a startup, it's nice to hear that even though you, I know how it is having a startup and just hearing from you, even though you're busy and everything, you're still making time and effort to help young people get those skills, whether it's like shadowing you without an experience or anything.

And it's just nice to see, obviously you're willing to do that, even though, because other companies just don't have time and they just like say, no, no, we're not going to give up. So it's nice to hear from your perspective and hear you say that you are offering. So anyone that's listening, if you guys want to obviously learn more and be part of TEXpert AI and learn more and get the skills that you need, then definitely get in touch.

Where's the best place that people can get in touch with you? They do want to know.

[00:22:09] Drishdey Caullychurn: LinkedIn is good, but for, um, well, younger students might not have a LinkedIn profile yet. I do encourage them to have one, but, uh, yes, you can always go on our website and send, um, an email there and someone will respond to you definitely.

So info at Texpert.ai. We can share the details later, so.

[00:22:29] Nadiyah Rajabally: Definitely. And with hundo, we obviously, um, just launched our virtual work experience. So it'd be great to talk to you more about that and see how we can work together and help you guys as well. We can get the task in and see if we can help balance out.

You can get more people on board for your way as well. So that'll be interesting. Well, it's been lovely speaking to you. So I'm Nadiyah Head of Marketing at hundo. So everyone obviously get in touch with just stay and learn more about AI with their website or get in touch through LinkedIn. Um, let us know if you have any questions, if you want to learn more about hundo, sign up on hundo.xyz.

And you can, if you can't watch the whole event this time, Today we will have everything on demand and on our platform and I look forward to hearing from everyone. Drishdey it's been lovely speaking to you and we need to catch up and we'll definitely try and work together and see what we can do because there's some interesting things that you guys are doing and I feel like we can collaborate definitely.

Definitely. So I hope everyone has a lovely day, a restful day of the evening, and yeah, we'll see you soon.

Bye!