[00:00:00] Piers Collins: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My name is Piers and I am one of the founders here at hundo. Um, and I am delighted to welcome Jonathan Lloyd to the conversation today. Um, and Jonathan, I'm gonna let you introduce yourself. Tell us a little about what you do at the moment.

[00:00:25] Jonathan Lloyd: Thanks, Peer. Well, I head up digital learning and AI at a school in Winchester, an independent school called Pilgrims, um, with oversight there of how we embed and integrate AI across the curriculum, um, looking at a variety of issues around it, um, and then obviously the teaching and strategy around digital learning at the school.

[00:00:47] Piers Collins: Wonderful. A perfect person to be speaking to given the subject of this, this content stream. Um, I guess let's jump straight into it on the AI front, um, very common, uh, in discussion of any AI really, whether it's in educational settings or anything else is, is, is the risks versus the benefits. Um, you know, with one camp talking about, uh, machines taking over the world, um, and another camp talking about it, revolutionising the way that society functions.

So I guess with a classroom perspective, have you found in these sort of early stages, the foothills of the AI revolution, the integration into education?

[00:01:25] Jonathan Lloyd: Yeah, well, it's exciting time, same time, quite nervous time as well. I think, I think the important thing is definitions, um, Piers, as with anything, starting anything, we need to be careful about defining these terms.

For example, what was the age group that we're kind of talking about here when we're talking about artificial intelligence? What do we actually mean by definition? AI, how we're sort of defining that. And obviously there's a big history and backstory to AI. It hasn't just suddenly emerged as a new thing.

It's actually the history behind it is, is incredibly fascinating. So I think it's really important that we start with those definitions. Um, every school is different. Um, all it operating in different contexts, but I think if you've got those clear definitions in terms of the age group, how you defining it, then you can kind of move forward and evaluate those different benefits and risks and, um, get some exciting, um, kind of opportunities from that.

[00:02:17] Piers Collins: Wonderful. For the benefit of the audience who don't know Pilgrims, what's the age group that you're currently working with?

[00:02:23] Jonathan Lloyd: So it's a prep school, so we teach up to 13, um, right, right from the, from the early years, um, and sort of seeing their skills, their digital skills growing, um, up until 13 and preparing them then for their, their senior school transitions, um, to local senior schools, as well as independent schools around the UK.

So, um, Yeah, it's an interesting age group. They're still developing lots of different schools of skills, but they're kind of, um, getting their head around that kind of really immersed in all of this and in terms of what's happening around them. So they're, they're really sort of keen to, to learn about it and to, to make sense of it all really.

[00:03:00] Piers Collins: Yeah, it's incredibly interesting. And I guess with this new technology and, and, you know, the age group that you work with and actually, you know, broadly young people that hundo work with, they are digital natives. They are comfortable with this technology, but this is also a technology that's impacting their parents probably simultaneously in their jobs.

Um, so it'd be really interesting to hear. With your perspective as an educator, whether you've had feedback, concerns observed from your parents regarding the way that you're using AI and this new technology in, in, in the education system.

[00:03:35] Jonathan Lloyd: Yeah, parental engagement is, is, is critical really Piers. And it's actually really exciting when you talk to parents and get them together because you can then increase your kind of knowledge base, if you like, and take a collaborative approach.

And that's really important. We're as educators, we're not. On our own in this, we, we have to involve parents in that conversation. Um, we've run, for example, to, um, education AI events at the school and, um, that'd be fascinating conversations. Um, we've had, um, some local educationalists come in, um, from a local school across the road, Winchester College, and parents have come along that come along to that as a kind of a, a hook really.

And just to start that dialogue around What it, what it is, what it looks like within education, what it might look like for pupils and to, to have that dialogue. And I think that kind of idea came about from, from a, uh, a, a, an event I was at through, uh, good note, good notes, where they launched a, a research report and collaboration is, is really important with this.

And, um, by tapping into your. Your parent base, you'll be, it's fascinating in terms of what areas they working and how much knowledge they actually have and how that can kind of help shape a transparent kind of AI policy if you like at a school.

[00:04:52] Piers Collins: Wonderful. It's great to hear. And I guess, um, talking about the other adults in the room, the faculty, the teachers, have you noticed there's been an adoption of any AI tools in the teaching community?

And if so, you know, what kind of things are they using? Is it helping them save time? They're using it for student assessment, lesson planning? How's it being integrated? Is it too early to say yet?

[00:05:14] Jonathan Lloyd: Well, it has. I mean, as the common phrase is, the horse is bolted and their teachers using it equally. Some are really, you know, nervous about it, which is understandable.

And, you know, I T skills. It sounds silly. I T skills is still a really important issue. I know a eyes kind of come come around very quickly. Quickly in that sense, but your traditional kind of I. T. Skills are really important for teachers as well. So it's important that we we don't lose sight of that and skilling up our teachers around the tech side.

If you like the digital side, if they feel it's relevant to their their own pedagogy or their lessons. I think if you start, if you look at kind of the structure. of teaching within the school and the hierarchy. You have obviously your heads of department, um, loads of great uses there. For example, we use in our department meetings, Otter AI, it's a great way of kind of taking, um, voice audio transcriptions of, of notes, uh, from a meeting and, and, um, quickly generating a summary from that and just cross checking it.

Typically that kind of thing appears would be, you know, Quite a time consuming thing to write up, or you wouldn't have be able to have the face to face contact if you were, if you were typing the notes. So, um, that's been, um, great for, for heads of department. Likewise, using chat GPT for, for content based tasks to update a scheme of work, for example, or some revision materials, um, is a great way of, of, of using it as well.

Um, Yeah, and beyond that, for those who are probably a bit more confident exploring the technology, um, we've actually developed a GPT. So within chat GPT, you can generate a, um, generative pre trained transformer, um, and that's trained on the local content that we have. And just, just to give the kids and the teachers some, some live kind of quiz questions, if you like, using the materials that we have and get them engaging through that as well.

So there are various kinds of routes you can take with, with kind of. Traditional teaching materials, and obviously there are plenty of wraparound tools that teachers are using to, to access, um, generated AI generated materials as well.

[00:07:26] Piers Collins: Very interesting. I mean, it's a super powerful tool and interesting.

You mentioned it cause it is it skills broadly. And I think what we're seeing and across, you know, all of the suite of really software that we use as a business is that we're plugging in AI tools themselves. So actually you're sort of starting to get a blurred line. Everything has an AI element in it.

You're just learning tech tools. Um, so it'd be interesting to see how that develops over the next few years and whether we see such a strong distinction of having this sort of AI over here. And other tools over here, actually, it's all going to be one thing, um, which is supported with artificial intelligence, um, in different ways.

So that's a really interesting, interesting answer. And I guess, you know, again, it might be too early to say this, and this is probably a question more about some of the older students. So the year eights that the students coming to the end of the time at your school, how's that AI driven, I guess, educational material that you've started to work with?

helped you shape the way that those students are ready for their future? So be that going on to secondary school and university or going to secondary school and into employment, has it given you some extra powers in terms of preparing those students?

[00:08:35] Jonathan Lloyd: Absolutely. It's had a huge impact. If I'm honest, I mean, a lot of my curriculum now has been shaped by it.

AI as a key pillar. So we have several pillars within digital learning, of which AI literacy is now a fundamental pillar. And actually it's a really exciting pillar because the kids that want to learn about it and engage with it. And one of my challenges is now thinking, how can I get this material out there to, to other pupils around the world, if you like, to start learning about The history of AI, its definitions, the generative pre trained transformers, doing a Turing test, um, uncloaking a GPT and, and being aware of, of, of the risks as well as the benefits.

And, um, really, you know, Understanding it more so it prepares them for, or at least gives them that grounding for their kind of future studies and being aware of that. And I think if they are aware of that, then it becomes a strong part of their own digital literacy, their digital skills and being able to To understand whether they can weave it into their, their own learning and their own learning paths.

Um, and I think, you know, we've been fortunate enough to build some values around that. So our values within our department is around the term crafts. So the traditional craft is, is, is really important and craft stands for being creative, being responsible, being able to adapt to adaptability. Um, having fun.

It's really important that we have fun. Um, when we're learning, we want to enjoy school or learning wherever we are in the world and, and, and trust as the team within craft. So, um, having that, that kind of values within our pillars of learning, it has been really, really important. And then getting the pupils to kind of feed into that idea.

And, you know, pupil voice is a common term, but. Um, one of the great ideas that we had was developing a AI charter. So for year eight, what does responsible AI use look like for that year group Piers and what's it going to look like for, for the next year group year seven coming into year eight, and do we need to adapt that it's just changing so quickly, isn't it with the core stuff you can develop using visual media and it's, it's, it's fast.

So I think having a. It's been really exciting and the pupils have been able to engage in that, um, and the other areas getting them to kind of as a competition, really, to name our GPT within the school and weaving that into the school kind of, you know, Words that we use and getting them engaged with that and knowing that actually they're just talking to a machine at the end of the day.

But actually, it does have a bit of bit of purpose. Um, so, yeah, pupils really, really important, um, engaging them in that conversation and getting their ideas and fears, if you like, and ideas fed up. Um, and then as our roles as educators thinking about the future and. We had some interesting talks and people come in around this kind of area and, you know, those skills are really, really important skills being able to critically analyse a an output from from using a I that's that supervise, for example, um, to understanding actually.

Well, you need to put something in here. That's not not garbage. So it's. Value in, you get value out, right? Or if you put garbage in, you're going to get the garbage out. Um, so that's really important, understanding that and having that kind of critical analysis of the output. Um, and there are a couple of other sort of areas being able to kind of, um, Defend your arguments is really important as well.

So those, those social skills are really, really important. It's not just, you know, just talking and engaging with a, with a, with, with a, with software or AI here. It's actually what are the social skills that we need? We need to be able to defend an argument and we need to, um, Have some what's called quantitative fluency.

So being able to look at data as well and analyse that and interpret various data. So, um, it's quite a lot to unpack there. But yeah, definitely thinking about values, skills and engaging pupils from the offset.

[00:12:52] Piers Collins: That's fascinating. And was that craft framework, did that exist pre AI? So you have really taken your framework and then just wrap the AI world around that.

Is that, is that, am I right in saying that?

[00:13:03] Jonathan Lloyd: No, it didn't exist. I've had to kind of design that. Fortunately, I've been able to sort of think of this, um, afresh with AI now that's come into the, to, to the world, hasn't it? And you're seeing that very exciting, but actually. Yeah. The value of craft is going to become even more important.

The value of human led learning will become important as well. So having those values, being able to work with people around the world is such an important skill. So, you know, um, You know, being able to adapt and having fun is, is really important. Being able to collaborate with each other, um, is, is really important.

And, and doing those tasks, whether it's coding something using a micro bit, you know, it's really important that they work together or doing the robotics. The, the, the pupils are really working together and it's not a solo effort. And yeah, having those values that we can link back to, and in the, in the context of AI and everything that's happening, it's really important.

It's been really, really important, but exciting. The pupils have kind of really, um, helped design and bought, bought into that Piers. Unbelievable.

[00:14:05] Piers Collins: Unbelievable. And I also think, you know, on on the hundo side, we work with a lot of employers, which is probably, you know, a little bit further removed from the age group that you are, you are, you are working with on the day-to-Day, but still important to have interaction with them.

Um, and ultimately those employers are using AI now. So if we are going to repair our young people for their futures, then just not having any view of AI is, is going to basically not be preparing them effectively. Um, and it's an easier criticism to make, but I remember being told when I was doing my maths GCSE many years ago, that I wasn't allowed a calculator.

I would never have a calculator when I went to the supermarket. Um, and obviously now we can go to the supermarket and I can go to an Amazon store and walk in and walk out without even having to get a wallet out. So, um, so yeah, it's a very interesting time and it's going to be interesting to see how we catch that lightning in a bottle and make sure we're preparing our young people.

So, John, I guess that brings us to a final question. We're running out of time, um, today. So, You touched on it a little bit, um, but it's something that comes up in almost every single conversation I have, whether it's with educators, employers, young people, and that is how do we, um, you know, ethically, uh, sort of step through this new world of AI and look at the regulation of it and, and its use in education, because obviously, casting my mind back to me being a student I would probably have been tempted to do all of my homework using chat gpt and just got very good at doing my homework with chat gpt Um, so not using that as the only example how are you guys thinking about how you sort of police marshal?

Um, you know your own community whilst you're waiting for I guess governments in the world to catch up

[00:15:45] Jonathan Lloyd: Yeah, I think, you know, as educators, teachers, we have a real role to help guide pupils, if you like, and, um, it's, it's a really interesting area in terms of regulation. There, there is, there is no regulation.

It's, it's, um, I was at a recent event, for example, in London at the Foundation for Science and Technology. Um, And there was a great panel there and there was a professor who made the point that education is still like the wild west. Um, so it's, it's, it's, you can go on and you can access anything and if with that internet connection, can't you?

And, um, so I think it comes down to, comes back to sort of the, the values, isn't it? And transparency and collaboration, that's really important. It's really. Crucial that we sort of foster that we foster that dialogue with our pupils, however old they are, be transparent in that conversation, um, working with, with, with your school and your senior leadership team to make sure that there's.

Policy in place and you're engaging the parents. Um, so that ecosystem, that, that microcosm, if you like, is, it's really, really important. Um, and again, I think it comes down to AI literacy and defining that. And I recently wrote a piece around that and what, how we define that and how that covers many, many subjects.

It's not just now computer science. It's the history of it, the geography of it, the social side of it. As you talk around, talk about with it, with the ethics, um, So there's, there's a lot of, um, crossover with other subjects. I think if you can engage other heads of department, um, you can really very quickly sort of see how you can weave in AI literacy and into their, their subjects, right through to art, for example, where, um, you were getting obviously deep, fake images and using that kind of skill to be able to, I know it's very difficult to sort of tell the difference between, um, images, which.

Which may be fake or content, which may be fake. So it's really important that we kind of, um, take, take, you know, act as guides on this, I think is, and, um, Yeah, work, work closely with, with our pupils as stewards, really, um, to promote that response for use, if you like, it, it does have limitations. So if we can have that, that dialogue and the people voice, we can, we can all be aware of those limitations and use it effectively and efficiently.

[00:18:08] Piers Collins: Wonderful. Well, I think we're about a time. Um, Jonathan, it's been fantastic to talk to you today. I appreciate that not everybody in the audience will know, um, you know, who you are, where you're from. So it'd be great to know, you know, if people do want to connect with you, do they go through LinkedIn?

What's the best place for them to reach you?

[00:18:25] Jonathan Lloyd: Yeah, I write a digital learning newsletter at classfutures.com. Um, my social media links are on there on Twitter with @JonathanLloyd, and then on LinkedIn, um, Jonathan Lloyd as well. But yeah, classfutures.com is probably the easiest place to find everything.

[00:18:40] Piers Collins: Jonathan, thank you so much for your time and insight today. It was wonderful to have you, um, as part of the feature. And, um, yeah, hopefully we will be able to work together in the future.

[00:18:49] Jonathan Lloyd: Great. Thanks, Piers.