Nadiyah: Welcome back to another esports interview. I'm Nadiyah, head of marketing at hundo, and we're going to be diving into esports, mastering skills, knowledge, and behaviours. And I've got the wonderful Elliot. Elliot, do you want to introduce 

Elliot: yourself? Yeah, for sure. Um, thank you so much for, for having me. So I'm Elliot.

Elliot: I'm, um, one of the co-founders and CEO of Diagon esports, um, where we help mostly, but not exclusively, national schools, uh, and their students to, uh, you know, Become empowered and find, uh, pathways to success through e sports. Cool. 

Nadiyah: So Elliot, how did you enter the e-sports industry and what was your career journey?

Elliot: Yeah. So actually it's really, um, closely tied to just my personal story as well as entrepreneurship. So I think it's kind of unique in that way because. Um, basically, so as I mentioned, I'm one of the co-founders, but another one of my, uh, original co-founders, um, called Eunice, we actually go way back. So we used to, we met through a mutual, um, we met through a mutual international school friend.

Elliot: So we both, uh, attended, uh, high school, uh, abroad. So I was, I was in, I was in Turkey and he was in, um. In Denmark and Copenhagen, and we met through a mutual friend that, um, because for those of you not really familiar with the international school space, people move around a lot. Um, you know, usually, uh, throughout their education.

Elliot: Um, and so it creates kind of this network of, of. People who have overlapped in different places and, uh, and we met through this mutual friend during kind of like a senior trip and, uh, and then we started playing video games together. Um, we started getting together and we developed a real friendship, um, through, you know.

Elliot: like through the weeks and hours and sessions of us gaming together. And eventually during COVID, um, you know, after a few years, we were gaming together a lot more than, than we had for, for the past few years. Because, you know, that's what everyone was doing. Um, there wasn't much else to be doing anyways.

Elliot: And, uh, and we were kind of just talking about. Esports and how big it had become at the pro level and all the opportunities that we're developing at the pro level, and we noticed really a gap between, you know, how much how structured it was for professional esports and how little opportunities there were for for amateur players, especially international schools.

Elliot: And we just talked about how much fun it would have been when we were in school if. You know, my group of friends in Istanbul was able to compete against his group of friends in Copenhagen. And, uh, and just really from there, well, we decided, well, why not, you know, try to build that. And, uh, and so we, you know, we applied for kind of like an entrepreneurship program through university and we, um, that helped, you know, support the start of it, and then we kind of went through the whole journey.

Elliot: Uh, the whole entrepreneurial journey of, of creating that, um, that we kind of wish we had and, uh, for the people that we, I guess, once were, um, so yeah, I'd say it's not definitely not like a traditional entry into the e sports industry for sure, but, um, and I hope to talk more about, you know, uh, the entrepreneurial pathway into the e sports industry as well, because it is such a growing and the video game industry at large, there's such growing industries that.

Elliot: Yeah. There, you know, there's a lot of potential for, for creativity and for creation. So, yeah. 

Nadiyah: Oh, that's a lovely, uh, founder story, having two friends and coming together. That's really nice the way, especially the way you guys, like, became friends and then your journey together from two different countries and combining, so that's really cool.

Nadiyah: So in the context of eSports education, what do you see as the primary skills, knowledge, and behaviours that students can develop and benefit from, especially enhancing their abilities in areas like teamwork, problem solving, and adaptability? 

Elliot: Yes, I think I mean, you know, I probably won't be the 1st person to say this from from the career con or or.

Elliot: In general, but I think that it's really those like core durable skills, right? Um, sometimes called durable skills, smart skills, soft skills, 21st century skills, whatever you want to call them. Right. But, um, effectively what we see in our programs is, you know, teamwork, critical, like complex problem solving, systems analysis, analytical thinking, communication, creative thinking.

Elliot: I'd say those six skills, especially. Um, really being, uh, you know, students really being able to progress and develop those skills. And what's really great about working on those skills through eSports is that these skills are, um, you know, becoming more and more important, but they're also hard to measure and hard to develop, right?

Elliot: There's no like, it's hard to practice these skills, right? They're, they're, the, the current curriculum structure isn't great at, at fostering these in a lot of ways. You know, in different contexts and, you know, there's been a lot of work done and there is still some work being done to, to improve that. But I think e sports is really a great area for that.

Elliot: And the thing I will say though, is like, you need to be engaging in these skills purposefully, right? Like if you're just playing, and this is why it's so important to bring e sports into, into schools, into structured environments, into education, because if you're just playing, you lose all the reflective learning.

Elliot: You know, and the purposeful play, um, and, and that's really where you get the benefits. So it's not just about playing, it's also about reflecting. On what you've been doing on doing so in a educational and structured environment, or you're pushed to think about, um, these different skills, you're pushed to think about, you know, how you're, you're engaging other others, how you're structuring your team.

Elliot: Right, so I think it's, it's very different from. There are like scientific cognitive benefits, for example, or motivational benefits from playing at home alone. Right. But I think that when we're talking about these important skills right and developing them, I think that bringing it into like a purposeful, purposeful learning environment and a structured environment where you're able to, like, actually, um, reflect in a more meaningful way and engage in a more meaningful way.

Elliot: These skills that the benefits are just, uh, much more profound, I guess. Thank you. 

Nadiyah: Yeah, no, definitely. I definitely agree, especially like with the education system now, where like these skills aren't being pushed enough. And then when people, when young people get into work, they're going to have to like start from scratch and be like, Oh no, what do I do?

Nadiyah: And they have to learn these skills. Um, so like how you said, These skills are super important, especially when it comes to amateur e sports and gaming, like you can build on these skills. How do you see these skills fitting into future job opportunities? Could you give like some examples of how they can use it in the workplace?

Elliot: Yeah. I mean, I think they can already be used today. Um, we, there's a great report from, I think it's called the Society of Human Resources Management. Um, and it studies, um, like the. People who come out of four year university degrees, um, and they actually see that three and four employers say that they have a hard time finding graduates with the durable skills they need, right?

Elliot: The durable skills we've been just talking about, right? So things like critical thinking, leadership, collaboration, communication and. Despite the fact that these skills are actually a growing demand, right? So not only was it already a growing demand with just, you know, the, uh, acceleration of tech, but now if you look at reports coming out on the impact of AI and how that's going to impact, you know, millions of jobs globally, um, in addition to kind of automation, right?

Elliot: Which will automate a lot of the tasks we actually see. Machines is being able to perform, um, you know, computation, data analysis, logic, like those can all be really. Um, well performed by machines, but the functions requiring emotional intelligence, you know, empathy, compassion, creative judgment, discernment, um, all those more nuanced skills, even things like teamwork, those will expand effectively and, um, you know, become increasingly valued in, in our culture and work.

Elliot: And so I think that it's just realizing that, like, being able to meaningfully showcase how you are good at these skills is a valued thing. Um, for employers, um, when you're in interviews, having concrete cases where you can show here's how I was involved in this and here's how it helped me build a, b, c, d skills is just really, really valuable.

Elliot: And I think eSports and video games in general provide a great avenue for that. If it's done in a purposeful way. So if you look at, Hey, I was captain of my e sports team, but I also produced this really amazing, unique program at my school showing this kind of like leadership, um, and teamwork opportunities.

Elliot: And in addition to that, um, you know, we worked on this game development assignment where. Uh, we came up with this really creative new game that everyone started playing at our school, right? If you're, if you're showcasing that in an, in an, in an interview, even if it's for something that's totally unrelated to e sports, right, you're showcasing these key abilities, leadership, teamwork, creativity, that are going to be valued and more and more valued, um, you know, as, as AI keeps expanding, so I think really thinking about it in kind of like, how am I proving these skills, right?

Elliot: Because as I said, in the beginning, they're really hard to measure. Right there, there, it's, we're not great at standardized testing teamwork. We're standardized testing leadership, right? That's you can't really standardize test that. So thinking about how you're using, you know, e sports in school, how you're using e sports or gaming in general, outside of school as a, you know, as a lever, especially if it's one of your passions for, um, For just showcasing those skills, right?

Elliot: Um, whether or not you intend to join, uh, the esports industry or the gaming industry at large. 

Nadiyah: Yeah, no, definitely. Like you said, obviously technology. We've got like AI and there's a lot happening within the tech, like every day there's something new happening. So what role does technology play in the esports industry?

Nadiyah: And how is it shaping the future of esports? And how do you see that helping push? young people to learn more at a faster pace, especially because we're like a tech driven 

Elliot: generation. Yeah. So I really see, and I mean, there's, there's the, the, the real answer is there's hundreds of ways in which it's going to, it's going to shape, you know, the future of, of video games, of e sports, of society, realistically, I see really three key areas that are interesting right now, uh, and from my perspective, again, um, The first is, um, in like how AI is enhancing, like the game itself, like game creation and, um, the, the types of games and the ways we're going to play games.

Elliot: So what I mean by that is if you look at game design tools, so unity right now has a bunch of beta programs, um, for AI tools, um, Roblox, um, studio has also is also working on some AI tool, um, AI tool, like. Software, um, and you know, same for, for unreal, like I know they're thinking about how do we bring AI into this, but basically think about the power and how much more content will be able to generate if you can create a game using a combination of text based prompts.

Elliot: And then some design and some limited coding, right? Like we're going to get into an era where user generated games. And it's, we're already getting there, right? You look at Roblox, you look at Fortnite, um, and, and what they did with the, the, their whole catalog of games,  user generated games are just going to become so prevalent, it's going to be close to what we see with, with, with social media, Tik TOK, right?

Elliot: Like if you think about Tik TOK, for example. We are at the first time in, you know, it's the first time in, in the history of the world that there's so much user generated video content, right? Um, there was a similar, there was a similar revelation or revolution. Sorry with blogging, right? When there was the internet like people started blogging and you never had so much user generated written form text that was produced and I think that With AI, I think like the next version of that, in the case of video games, is you're going to see just, again, an exponential amount of user generated games created because it's going to become so much more accessible through AI.

Elliot: The second is in the premium games that we actually play, you'll, the use of AI is going to allow everyone to have a singular experience in the game. This is especially true for things like, um, Uh, personal like story mode games, you know, where there's like not online games, obviously where you're playing all together, but like where there's a separate story because every single interaction will be able to trigger, uh, you know, X variety of potential other interactions that are completely independent from one another.

Elliot: And anyone playing the game just by doing X, Y, and Z things differently, we'll have a. You know, paths that are going to open up to them all dynamically through AI. So that's really on the, kind of like this game specific. I think this, the, on the, the broader question of how technology plays a role in the esports industry, I think the second point is VR, right?

Elliot: So, um, we saw, uh, Apple just released their own, you know, Headset, which is way too expensive, uh, the quest, you know, the meta quest is getting is getting much better. Um, As that keeps expanding again, we'll start engaging in games in augmented reality virtual reality in in Improved ways and I think people can start to see that I don't think there's mass adoption yet there and as mass adoption gets there You'll just see crazier investments and crazier things happening.

Elliot: And then the final one is brain controlled gaming. So this is something that I've seen come up a lot recently. You have people who are starting to play it, right? You have the Elon Musk Neuralink. You have, um, a few other, uh, similar projects, but people are starting to be able to play the video game. Or any game or even online and whatever by hooking up effectively their, you know, brain circuitry and neurons to the game.

Elliot: And I think that the evolution of that, even from a skills perspective, like how well you can control your thoughts and how well you can control your brain in split decisions, it's already being showcased right with. Controllers, right? You're able to do that really quickly, but there's the hand eye coordination aspect here.

Elliot: I think we're even gonna cut that and then it'll just be like, how efficient and quick can your brain react? And again, back to the cognitive skill development and all that. I think that'll be an interesting area to follow. So I'd say, yeah, those three really like A. I. V. R. And, you know, whatever brain controlled gaming, however you want to put that are really three ways that I see technology.

Elliot: Shaping the future of eSports and gaming more generally. 

Nadiyah: Yeah, definitely. I feel like those are the main ones, especially with like VR. Like we've um, we went as a team event, we went out to a virtual reality space and we had all our like VR headsets and we were playing games and stuff and it was really fun and I feel like that's like the future of gaming now.

Nadiyah: And especially that you can Buy a metal quest and be in your home and like talk to someone across the world and still play a game still have that communication interaction. I feel like that's really cool. And like you said, obviously, a lot of these equipment is very expensive. So what advice would you give young people that maybe might not be able to afford these?

Nadiyah: Is there any like places they could go to? Any charities or any stuff that you know that they could try these things out even online? 

Elliot: I think, um, I mean gaming cafes are great. Um, you know, I think there's like VR type of gaming cafes that are starting to open again. I think adoption just isn't really there yet.

Elliot: Um, I mean, in terms of like augmented reality stuff, there's already like a fair amount you can do like with your phone, for example. Um, but then, yeah, I think, I mean, again, like. It's just a matter of time, like internet, the internet used to be just so much more, you know, costly to access and these technologies as they get adopted and expand will become cheaper to use.

Elliot: Um, I mean, concerning like the AI tools, like a lot of it is all free. Like, you know, you can start coding on unity for free. You can start coding on Roblox studio for free. You can start using, you know, signing up for the betas. So, um, I'd say that, that, that one is great for the brain controlled gaming. I don't even know how I would get my hands on it.

Elliot: So I think we'll have to wait a few more years before, before that even becomes, you know, generally, generally accessible, um, or maybe not that long. I don't know. But, uh, but yeah, 

Nadiyah: yeah. What are the key steps for someone looking to start creating e sports and what entry level positions might be available, which you might not know about?

Elliot: Yes. I think this is an interesting one. I,  I like to take kind of two steps, I guess, if you really want to work in e sports, right? Like if you really want to work in competitive professional video games and the jobs around that, then obviously you're going to fall into a category of you're either kind of, you know.

Elliot: On the media side, you're in the kind of like events organization side at large, whether that's like business development, sponsorships, all that, just like the whole like events and, and find it like merchandising and all that, or you're kind of on the player side, whether that's nutritionist, whether that's, um, you know, coaching, whether that's, um, whatever it might be really like on, on that end, um, the coach or whatever it might be.

Elliot: So I think like those jobs, I feel like are pretty. I mean, yes, I can go through them right now and I could go through them and explain to you which jobs, you know, are available, which aren't, but I think what's actually more interesting is thinking about it in the wider lens of the whole video game industry, because it is much bigger, right?

Elliot: So if you look at e sports versus the video game industry, it's like this small versus like this, right? Like it's, it's considerably larger. It's a 300. Close to 350 billion industry. That's bigger than Hollywood, the video ads industry and the, and like the music industry combined. Right. So we're talking something really, really massive.

Elliot: Um, and if you take it from that angle, the tip I have is to really find what you're good at, right? Hone a specific skill that you're good at and start applying it to e sports, right? So whether that's. You know, whether that's, um, you're really good at data science or you're really good at software development, or you're really good at marketing, or you're really good at business development, whatever it might be.

Elliot: Right. Like, um, I, I know, I know companies that are out there that specialize in like marketing and roadblocks or marketing and, you know, creating marketing experiences in Minecraft. Like if you find the specific skill that you're good at. I think that's the most important thing. And I think the mistake that a lot of people make because the eSports industry is quite crowded and is, you know, going through a bit of a rough patch is focusing too much on the, Oh, but I have to be the best at streaming or the best at being a journalist for eSports or the best at hosting an eSports event.

Elliot: Actually, you know, I, we, I know, for example, and used to. Work with, um, someone who worked at, um, like who worked on apex legend. Um, and he was a data scientist and he worked on the meta of apex legends. Right? So what he was really good at is gathering a ton of data and analyzing it and finding insights to make the game better.

Elliot: Like, Oh, well, this and that, the meta would be more balanced if we did this in the game or that in the game, or if we boosted this or boosted that. So they were really passionate about. Uh, you know, gaming, they were really passionate about e sports, but they honed in on their skill of, you know, big data and data science.

Elliot: And they just, when came time to apply for internships, when came time to apply for apprenticeships, all they did is focus on the roles, those roles within the video game industry at large, right? So finding all the data, and there are a ton of these data scientists roles within all the big game publishers, right?

Elliot: Because you have to collect a ton of data as you know, if you play any of like You know, league of like League of Legends, for example, you know that there's a ton of data that that's outputted from a single game and you collect that data across millions of games and then your role is to analyze it and figure out what tweaks you want to make to make it better.

Elliot: Right? So that's just like one specific example. But I would say, find what you're good at and. And, um, and really like try to see how you can apply that skill within the video game industry or e sports, um, kind of at large, um, 

Nadiyah: cool. Yeah. Like you said, people don't realize like you still need all the basic roles within each of the industries, even though it might be specific e sports or gaming, you still need like a finance team, you need marketing team, you need all these others to put it together and work together.

Nadiyah: So. Obviously, you are an eSports entrepreneur, and it'll be good if you talk more about that, eSports or is thinking about getting into the event space and all of that, and like what tips and advice, and how this space is actually emerging for entrepreneurs like you. 

Elliot: Yeah, so I really wanted to highlight, um, how big, like, the...

Elliot: Entrepreneurial space in the video game industry at large is so, um, and just to showcase that, so a 16 Z, which is Anderson and Horitz, they're one of the largest, um, venture capital firms in the world. I think they're the second largest, biggest venture capital firm in the world based out of San Francisco.

Elliot: They, uh, released, I think it was last year. Yeah. Um, a 600 million. Fund called the games fund one to invest in gaming at large. So they're investing in game studios to produce some of the best games and like, you know, have games as a, as a, as a service, they're investing in companies looking at the games X consumer space.

Elliot: So anything that can be done to support. Uh, gamers and build around player communities. So, you know, think Discord, think Twitch, um, right, just a few examples. And then they're, they're investing in infrastructure, right? So things like the metaverse, um, things like, uh, content creation, um, and like marketing integrations into game, live operations, like anything that's related to like the infrastructure around virtual worlds, online services, and gaming.

Elliot: So. That right there, it's 600 million of potentially untapped money, right? Um, that's just waiting for people to apply for and, you know, waiting for projects to finance. And if they're putting in 600 million, it's because they believe that there's a ton of opportunity. Right. Um, and so beyond just like this sheer fact of applying or getting into something specific like that, there is huge opportunity in these three areas.

Elliot: And so just thinking about like, what do you see in the video games industry? Where there's potential, right? I talked about marketing and Roblox. I know marketing and in Minecraft, I know agencies that are developing Minecraft experiences for companies only. Um, you know, like Fortnite, for example, like, is there, is there, is there any.

Elliot: Like integration there with anything, just starting to think about what it is, um, where you might be able to contribute. And again, not everyone needs to follow that path. And that's why, if I wanted, if you wanted to follow as well, kind of like a broader. of the games in the, sorry, of the jobs in the video game industry.

Elliot: I recommend following Hitmaker. Um, they're a good example. Um, I think it's hitmaker. com. They post regularly on LinkedIn. Um, and I'm sure they have a newsletter where they post all the entry level positions in gaming. Um, everything that's going on in terms of jobs in the video game industry. Um, and so that's, that's a really good resource, but yeah, I would just have you think like where.

Elliot: You know, there are opportunities. What's the right path for you? What's the right angle for you, whether that be entrepreneurship or any other skill, and then how can you find your in? Uh, into the, the e sports world. 

Nadiyah: Is there any young entrepreneurs listening? Some great advice from Elliot. You can see that you can dive into the e sports and there's so much funding that you can, if you've got an idea or anything, you can go in and like research and hopefully you can find something and hopefully become successful.

Nadiyah: Um. So what are the most critical skills for success in eSports careers, and how can students start developing these skills early on? Obviously you've spoken more about gaming, and how educators can help, and employers, and what young people can do. Are there any like specific things that you think that they can early on, even like parents that are listening, how they can help their young people start adapting 

Elliot: those skills?

Elliot: Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, so there's all the skills that we talked about, right? Like all the skills that are needed in the workplace. Generally, I think that in any industry, and I think in e sports, especially, I think a critical skill is networking and being able to understand the landscape. Right. Um, it's a pretty young industry, so there aren't that many actors.

Elliot: So just like get connected. Right. And I can't tell you, we used to do like, we used to record for, for some of our students, like masterclasses of different careers and how they, how people got there in the sports industry. And it always started with someone going out of their way to volunteer, to run an event, to write for free for that event, like reports about what was going on to, uh, You know, support a small community effort conference or tournament and getting to know people there and from getting to know people there, you know, little by little, just like getting a job as first, like a content creator for an e sports org and then doing this and then doing that.

Elliot: Um, so, so I really say just like, um, get out there and. Get connected, attend events, uh, follow people in the industry, try to see where, you know, who, if, if you're really interested in graphic design and gaming, like who are the best graphic designers, um, for e sports, right in the UK, for example, like, are there any.

Elliot: Associations, or are there any discord servers or, you know, for the, for what's some of the best graphic designs that's being produced out there and how can you connect with those people? Um, and yeah, I'd say that. And then if you're, if you have the opportunity or you're interested, like create content, uh, or volunteer and actually like start doing what you want to be doing, right?

Elliot: So if you want to be doing events. In the future, start organizing or trying to volunteer to for events. If, if you want to become someone from a media perspective and start producing media around a specific game, a specific community, um, and if you're able to, I'd say in turn, right, try to find an internship as soon as possible.

Elliot: Um, Or even like a placement once you're, you're, you're in uni, um, and find again, your unique advantage, right? Your unique skill, what you're interested in and, uh, and try to see if there's an in, and again, I would broaden the search, you know, to not just eSports specifically, but the video game industry at large, and one can really help with the other, right?

Elliot: So, um, if you end up. You can end up switching around. So I would say, yeah, um, just to kind of recap, I really say, just start, you know, get out there, start connecting with people. And it's not that big of a scene, uh, yet really in a lot of places. So. Um, if you make your way in and you, you know, really want to learn and are eager to learn and help, then at some point it'll come back around.

Nadiyah: Yeah, that's really, some really good advice. And especially we've got a wonderful Elia and all our speakers today who you can also like, I'm sure you can just message on LinkedIn and reach out and they'll definitely give you some advice and love to help you out. So Elia, in your opinion, what exciting trends and innovations can you expect and most excited about for the future of esports?

Elliot: I think, well, eSports right now is in kind of a tough time. Um, for those of you who don't know, like the eSports funding and revenue is, you know, they're struggling a bit at the moment, given like just. The current economic situation and kind of how much, um, you know, money has a bit dried up and become more expensive.

Elliot: Um, but what I'm really excited for thinking longer term, and it's kind of along those lines is for esports, um, orgs and, um, and, uh, franchises to become, to like, Emerge as like the sustainable ones, right? We're kind of, there's always for every innovation, there's like a hype and then there's kind of a little slump and people get, you know, kind of like weeded out during that period and then it starts going back up and you have really the, the, the real scene that emerges.

Elliot: And I think we're kind of in that slump moment a little bit. Um, you know, nothing to be too worried about, but just like slightly. Um, and I'm really excited to see like, you know. Esports being even more structured at every level, right. All the way from amateur to pros and seeing that really like, I think we're kind of like five years from there where it's like fully established amongst, you know, at every level, um, you know, like Saudi Arabia just bought the rice to the world cup, um, like the esports world cup, um, Like IP, I guess, um, and trademark.

Elliot: And so they're just going to start there. I think they're replacing the gamers eight with that and going to have like national teams compete potentially in eSports. Like there's so much still to be done, right? Like that for that to be really structured and recognized. Like I think once the whole echelon of competitions and Levels of e sports have been really cemented.

Elliot: Like that's what I'm really excited for is basically for it to be, you know, get to that phase where it's fully structured and finalized and where, you know, you're then at kind of a more mature level as a, as a, as a, you know, market effectively, um, And, uh, and seeing that kind of mainstream this, I guess, even beyond what, uh, what it is today, right?

Elliot: It's, it's getting much more mainstream and it is much more mainstream than even five years ago. But I think getting to that level of like, everybody knows what we're talking about. Um, everybody wants, you know, their son or daughter or whatever, when, if they're good and interested in that to be like pursuing that fully and just get to that level of recognition from a wider audience, I guess.

Elliot: Um, of the industry at large. 

Nadiyah: Yeah, I know. Definitely. Especially. Yeah. Like you mentioned eSports, how big it's become. I feel like the last few months, so even like this year, it's just growing. Like I didn't really know much about eSports last year. And then this year, everyone's just talking about it. And it's really nice to see how, um, people can now use their gaming skills.

Nadiyah: Within an industry and you can make it into a profession, which is really cool. I feel like this is such an interesting conversation. I don't want it to end. So i'm gonna have one last question What is your favorite top three favorite games and what games should young people be playing right now? 

Elliot: Oh, so I guess those might be two different answers.

Elliot: Um I don't know if my favorite games would be the best ones for people to be playing right now Um, so I think my favorite game to watch Even though I'm, I don't play it that much funny enough is, is Rocket League. And I think what's going on right now on the, on the Rocket League eSports scene is really fascinating.

Elliot: Um, for those of who are familiar, like what's happened with Zen, um, and, and, you know, like basically this like genius kid who, you know, is like 16 and it's completely shaken, you know, the whole world of Rocket League professionally, um, upside down and at a score, I really love stories like that. Um, so I'd say that one to watch, I think to play, um, I'm really big on FIFA.

Elliot: Um, I mean, I always have been, and I think right now what I've been playing the most recently is Fortnite with the, the reboot, um, and the new map, it was, you know, talking about COVID and talking about, you know, uh, kind of. Uh, nostalgia of that, that period, um, that has been quite fun these days. Um, so yeah, I don't know if those are the games that anyone should be playing, but those are the games that I definitely like.

Elliot: In terms of the ones that they should be playing, I'd say Minecraft is really amazing, and I, I definitely played it a lot growing up, and I, I wish that Minecraft... Was more like now it's so much more developed and evolved than when I started playing and there's so much so many more opportunities and maps and bigger community.

Elliot: But I'd say, like, yeah, Minecraft, like all around, whether it's creating maps, developing maps, playing them. Um, like there's so much opportunity there. And I think like really, really, really diving into Minecraft is so beneficial, um, for, for, for just like a whole host of reasons. Um, I'd say Roblox, like probably not for playing, but I, I just, I think it's such an interesting platform.

Elliot: Um, you know, it's definitely not like tailored to older audiences per se, but I think like understanding Roblox fundamentally and starting to test out, like, Publishing your own little mini games on Roblox is a really, really great avenue. Um, and then, yeah, I'd say really those, those two in terms of like raw kind of like learning, um, and then like independent games.

Elliot: Um, so there's not like one in particular that I would push, but one thing I do like to do is just like browse, you know, Steam or just like online forums of independent games and test them out. Um, and sometimes they're really short games, right? Like 30 minutes and you're done, but I think it's a really good way as well to like, start understanding the process of game making and how a big title becomes to be a big title.

Elliot: Um, so yeah, I'd say those three things, if I'm thinking very like. Um, and then obviously the games I play because they're fun and you know, you still get, you still get a lot of benefits from them. Yeah, 

Nadiyah: definitely. Cool. So anyone that's listening, definitely check out those games and start building your skills and prepare for the future work.

Nadiyah: So Elliot, where's the best way for people to connect to you if they want to ask any questions, any advice? 

Elliot: Yeah, so I'd say, um, you know, LinkedIn, uh, make sure to, uh, Follow, you know, Diagon Esports on LinkedIn, uh, and feel free to reach out, um, as well. Um, that's probably, probably the easiest. 

Nadiyah: It's definitely easier.

Nadiyah: That's how I reached out to Elliot to get him to do an interview today. Elliot, it's been wonderful speaking to you. I wish we could carry on this conversation. We definitely need to meet up and talk more about eSports. Um, thank you everyone for watching this interview. It will be live on demand if you can't watch the whole interview.

Nadiyah: So you can watch at hundo. socials and I hope you have a good rest of the day and enjoy the event. Thank you. Bye.