Scott:‍

Hello and welcome. I'm Scott, Bryne-Fraser. I'm the Chief Product Officer and technical co-founder here at hundo. Uh, thank you very much for joining us again today at Career Con Today I'm delighted to be joined by Gayle Harrison, and we'll be talking about. Fashion fusion, blending physical, digital, and NFTs into a greener future.

Uh, thank you very much for joining me today.

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Gayle:  

Thank you Scott. Really nice to be here. 

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Scott:

‍ Um, could you start by telling us a bit about yourself, your current role, and then we can dive into some questions? 

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Gayle:

Yeah, so I'm the founder of a new fashion resale platform called UNTAGGED. So we are trying to get people to buy more secondhand clothes and as I'm sure we'll we'll get into, um, we are looking at how we can use sort of emerging technologies to make that experience much more fun and enjoyable and rewarding for people.

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Scott:

‍Yeah. Fantastic. So what made you take the route into bringing together, you know, physical and digital fashion within UNTAGGED? You know, and can you explain to everybody how that concept works? 

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Gayle:

Yeah. So maybe I'll take you back sort of a few steps into sort of why, why I started all this, cuz I, uh, I think what a lot of people don't realise is quite how bad the fashion industry is.

And I, I certainly didn't realise it. So I've, I've always really enjoyed fashion and buying clothes and, uh, I guess I realised I'd got a bit of a habit, a bad habit when it came to buying clothes. I was buying too many, wasn't wearing them for long enough. Um, so I started to sort of consider what I was doing and then, and then started to, I, I sort of ended up going down a rabbit hole looking into the fashion industry and found out some really quite terrifying stats.

So, you know, for example, the fashion industry is the second most polluting industry after oil. We talk a lot about the damage the oil industry is doing to the planet, but we don't really reference, uh, fashion in the same way. Um, and I also found out that there's enough clothes on the planet to dress the next six generations of the human race.

So anything that we're making now is so surplus to requirements. There's enough stuff out there already, and, uh, we just need to find ways to get people to use what's out there much more, um, effectively than they are doing currently. So, So that's kind of why I, I started doing it and I started looking into buying secondhand clothes and I was using sort of going to charity shops a bit and trying resell platforms like eBay and Vintage Depop, all of these.

I just found it a very frustrating experience and wanted to find a way to make it much more fun for people. Um, cuz what we found was lots of people are buying secondhand clothes, particularly in the younger generation. It's definitely, uh, seen as. Is the right thing to do now, but lots of people do it for a little bit and then they stop and, and actually end up going back to fast fashion and, and continuing to contribute to the problem.

Um, so what we want to do is find a way to make it more addictive. Uh, and I I say that in a positive way. Uh, then, then it currently is. So how do you make the experience really sticky for people? So they want to keep doing it? So what we looked to was the gaming industry and. The sort of mechanics that, that games have that make them want you to keep coming back and, and playing over and over again.

Um, so things like, um, Setting people up, challenges to, to complete, um, uh, giving them rewards for doing that. Uh, so things like building sort of a sense of urgency when you, when you, when you do these things. And we've built all of those into our resale app. So it's kind of like a cross between a marketplace and a mobile game.

Um, So that makes it all much more engaging. And, and, and as you do things in the app, you earn points and these points can be redeemed for prizes and discounts with brands who've just signed up a, a national gym partner. Um, you can get money off things. So, so it's a sort of a loyalty program as well. So that's kind of the basics of, of, of the resale platform.

But when it comes to digital fashion, that's a, it's a really interesting area that's, that's very much an emerging, um, space. So I guess, what do we mean by, by digital fashion? Um, cause there are lots of different sort of iterations of, of what it can be. Um, so I think something that most people will be familiar with is, Skins in games.

So it's a huge industry. Billions of dollars are spent every year on buying skins. I, I have a 10 year old son who is spending a lot of money on buying skins in Fortnite and is desperate for each battle pass to come out so he can get the next new skin. So this is, you know, obviously something that we're quite familiar with.

So it can be. It could be that skins and games. But also what's really interesting is it can be, uh, garments that we, we are wearing in our, in our digital lives that we sort of transport around. So it could be garments that we're wearing in the metaverse, or it could be garments that you and I are wearing on this call now, which are overlays to the actual garments that we're wearing, physical garments that we're wearing underneath.

What's really interesting about this whole idea of digital clothing is. From a sustainability perspective, it's, it's fantastic. We're not, we're not using the earth's resources to create new garments. We're, you know, there, there obviously is a, the carbon footprint associated with digital things as, as well as physical things, but much, much, much, much smaller.

Um, so the idea that in the future some of our wardrobe will be digital garments and some of it will be physical garments, is, is something we really want to embrace. So, The long story to, to get to the end of all of that is that within UNTAGGED what we want to do is to give people the opportunity to trade both their secondhand clothes, physical clothes, but also digital clothes.

And whilst that's very much an emerging space at the moment, we really foresee that in the future we will have digital wardrobes as well as physical wardrobes. And why wouldn't you merge all of those together in, in one place? And, and that's, that's the vision that we're building at at UNTAGGED. 

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Scott:

It sounds fantastic and I think it's really inspiring to hear about those two different areas being pulled together in a, you know, a very sensible way cuz when you were talking through, you know, the digital wearables, as you say, skins are huge, huge market.

But the thought that I could actually dress myself and have a wardrobe for the calls, I spend a lot of my time talking to people on a screen like this and to be able to. Dress myself digitally and have a wardrobe that I can pick from. Makes a lot of sense. Makes a huge amount of sense because it's, again, it's a representation of your identity, so, And I can see the market for that being, you know, the market for that will be huge, you know, will be huge in the future when the technology catches up and everybody has effectively ar filters that address you when you sit behind your, your Zoom meeting, then the, the potential is massive as well as it is for when, when you go out.

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Gayle:

Yeah. And, and it is starting, um, and I have been on Zoom calls where people have been wearing digital clothes or, or digital jewelry actually. So, uh, I've been on calls with people wearing amazing digital earrings and then, Halfway through the Zoom, I noticed that they've changed them and you're like, oh, you've got, you've got multiple things that you can wear dear, and you can just change one.

You feel like it. I mean, how amazing is that? 

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Scott:

It's phenomenal, isn't it? Cuz you could. You could change your outfit, you can change, you can change your facial features, you can change everything about you. So it's, yeah, it's phenomenal. The potential for it, you know, particularly, you know, depending on who you're speaking to, you, you could change quite a bit.

My next question was actually going to be about why this is important for the environment, but you've, you've already covered that in that if there's enough clothing to cover the next six generations, then it's pretty clear that there's a massive surplus. Of clothing that's being generated and the environmental impact on that is clearly huge.

You know, clearly huge. That we're driving so much energy into creating so much more of a product that we technically don't need. You know, if we had enough food on the planet right now to feed the next six generations, we would probably ease off farming. So it's, it is amazing to think of that. That's the impact already.

As you are bringing these two areas together, you know, can you talk through some of the benefits you've already started to see, um, essentially some of the issues as well when you're bringing together your physical and digital fashion? 

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Gayle:

Yeah. Um, I mean, I think the first thing I would say is, Bringing those two worlds together.

Um, whilst it should be straightforward, and it sounds like a natural thing to do, it's, it's not straightforward. Um, it's, it's still, you know, the technology is evolving and people's awareness of all this stuff is, is evolving very much. And, and as an industry it's changing very, very quickly. Um, but what I would say is that it's a really exciting.

So what we've been doing, uh, sort of one example of what we've been doing is looking at AR filters for wearing clothes. So everybody, I'm sure is, is uses Snapchat. We all know about using filters for our, for our faces. Um, but you can also use those filters to clothe yourself, um, so that that technology is out there.

Um, and. Whilst the technology's not perfect yet, so if you are wearing a digital garment using an AR filter, you can tell, you know, it's, it's pretty obvious that it's a digital garment, and if you move your body, sometimes the clothes don't move quite with you or don't quite fit, fit to you. But that said, it's, it really drives people's, um, interest.

So if we've, we've just been to an event where we've, we've put this out there and let people have a little play with these digital gums through these filters and, and everyone wants to have a go, they're like, oh, what, what is that? And, and they can. They can grasp this idea that they could be overlaying these clothes on, on their bodies in the future, when, when the technology does get there.

So I think people want to do it, and when they're able to do it, they, they will do it, which is, which is really well, it's really fantastic. You know, we, we want that to happen. Um, So that's all the sort of the, the good stuff. I think on the, on the sort of the, the issues that we found. Um, I mean, as I said, you know, first of all the, the, the AR tech is a bit glitchy and you know, it, it's, uh, It's not perfect.

It is improving, but it's, but it's not perfect. So the idea that, um, you could replace physical clothes with digital clothes using that at the moment it's not, it's not realistic. It's not a replacement one, one for the other. Um, what's also quite tricky is integrating a sort of physical clothing platform with the digital clothing platform.

So, What we would really like is if people are, have a, have a, an item, a physical item of clothing that they love to be able to create a, a digital version of that so you can wear it in your digital world as well as your physical worlds. Um, and a lot of the, the digital clothing that out there that's out there at the moment is quite surreal.

And, you know, and that's, that's one of the benefits of the Digital technology is you can create whatever your, wherever your imagination goes, you can create that digitally. And obviously you can't physically, you can't. Physically make things outta fire or mercury or, you know, but you can do that in a digital world.

But I think sometimes people will also want to wear clothes that are just. A bit more normal, a bit more reflective of what they would wear in their physical lives. So we want to enable that to happen. But at the moment, that's quite tricky. It's not easy for if I have a, an item that, a physical item I want to sell.

I can't just create a digital version of that easily. Um, and as a business in creating digital garments, we have to go to specialists to create those garments for us. And, and that. Takes time, and it's quite expensive, so it means it's not yet sort of widely, um, usable. Um, but that is gonna change and we're already looking at things like AI and how we can use AI to help us create these digital garments and, and, and enable anybody to do it.

So, um, that, that will be great. Um, and the other bit that's sort of not really a problem, but, but I guess demonstrates how new all of this is, is, um, The whole sort of emergence of web three, so, The idea with digital garments, we've talked about wearing them with an AR filter. That's just quite a straightforward thing.

But where it gets really interesting is this idea of digital ownership and that you buy a digital garment and you own it and you can transport it around into different. Different worlds, digital worlds. Um, so, you know, a skin in Fortnite is a digital garment at the moment. You can buy a garment in, in, you can buy a skin in Fortnite, but you don't actually own it.

You think you do, but you don't. If, if Fortnite was to shut down tomorrow, your skins are gone and you don't, you don't get to keep them. And you can't take those skins outta Fortnite and wear them on an avatar in a different game. Um, The hope, the, the, the, the, the beauty of, you know, web three is that that will all change and that, that you might be able to transport these digital garments around and use them in different ways in digital, digital worlds.

Um, which is, which is really, really exciting. Um, and again, the tech isn't, isn't there yet. That's a sort of a vision and it's not a reality. Um, but the uptake of, um, this sort of web three world for a, a. Typical person is, is still very, very small. So we've just launched, uh, our first NFT collection of digital garments and, uh, we were at a, a big event a few weeks ago, 20,000 people, uh, mostly young people, um, at this event.

And to own a an NFT, you need a digital wallet. And of all the people, the hundreds of people I spoke to during that event, only one person had a digital wallet. Um, and, and actually most of the people didn't, didn't even know what one was, let alone sort of be able to have a conversation about it. So it's still very, very much an emerging, emerging space.

And, and I'm sure it will move very, very quickly, but that is one of the challenges we face in that, you know, we we're not yet at the point where we can turn this into a mass market thing. It's still quite, quite small. 

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Scott:

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Whenever I ask people, do you have a wallet or what's your understanding of web three?

If you're, if you're speaking to a typical crowd, there will always be somebody that puts their hands up, A few people that nod, but the majority of people will be. What's a wallet and why is that the thing in my pocket? And it's interesting, whenever you are working on a project like this, you're actually trying to solve the whole end to end chain.

You're trying to help people. It's almost like in the fashion world, you create the product, the store, but you're also helping people set up the bank account, work out how to put money in it. You are actually helping people through that whole process, which is clearly very challenging for people. And it's, it's a lot of steps to jump through.

Um, I was also fascinated about the, the comment you made about, Being able to see the digital fashion almost anywhere. You know, you, you made a, a fascinat comment about it, it being something that eventually you could wear almost anywhere. And again, with the uptake of, you know, spatial computing with Apple's recent announcements and ar becoming more of a standard feature, I think we'll see it becoming more and more headsets will get smaller and smaller.

You could almost imagine a world in the future where you are walking down the street and there's two views of the world. Does the actual view of what people are wearing. But then there's also the overlaid view, which is the, the view you decide to give to somebody who's wearing a spatial headset as well.

So there's something quite fascinating about that in that true mixing of the real world and digital and how they can converge at some point in the future. Yes, I'm just wearing a t-shirt right now, but if you saw me walking down the street, maybe it has, maybe it is on fire. Maybe it is doing something cool and it's, it's quite fascinating where that could potentially lead us to.

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Gayle:

I think it's amazing. I think it's extremely exciting and we, we've seen bits and pieces of that happening, uh, with trainers. Um, so I've seen footage of people in, in New York walking down the street with some sort of headset where they're wearing these just awesome trainers on, you know, digital trainers on top of their actual trainers.

Um, and that, that super cool. And, and what's also really great about it, I think is the opportunity to democratise some of this. So, um, You know, that you, you could, at the moment what we're seeing is digital fashion. It's still quite expensive, but it's not as expensive as the physical luxury item would be generally.

There are some exceptions, but generally, um, so imagine there's this really cool pair of trainers that the physical pair cost 500 pounds. Most people can't afford that, but you might be able to wear the digital pair for. 50 pounds or 20 pounds. Um, so that, that's amazing. Um, and then you trade them. When you're done with them, you come to UNTAGGED and you sell your, your secondhand digital trainers to someone else who, who wants them.

That's, it's really exciting. 

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Scott:

It is, isn't it? And. There's also something else about digital where it, one, it can have a sense of history, like secondhand clothing can have a sense of history to it that you, you could start to build in history into a digital item. So you start to understand where it's been in the past and it builds up metadata around it.

There's also something about the attributes that can be given to it. You know, like you can get a, a jacket that's waterproof in the real world. If you get a Fortnite skin, which gives you extra powers, extra armor, whatever it may be, then that ability to take that into the spaces as well, and it do interesting things.

Again, it, the opportunities are potentially endless in terms of what you could do with that garment. It's not just an item that looks nice, but it could do different things in different spaces depending on how it, how, how developers build for it. 

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Gayle:

Yeah. 

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Scott:

Yeah. So going on to the next question, what sort of skills and jobs do you think are gonna be available?

So in the short term and the longer term, as you say, the technology landscape is changing quite a lot within digital fashion, but when you are looking for people in the short term, long term, what kind of skills are you looking for? What type of roles are you hiring for? 

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Gayle:

Yeah, so it's, I mean, it is such an emerging space.

Um, and, and it kind of, at the moment, digital fashion sort of spans two worlds. So you've got the sort of traditional fashion world, um, which still is quite traditional and, and actually. Uh, the capabilities to use some of the, the software required for sort of making these sort of digital garments is, is quite limited in that traditional fashion world.

And then you've got the gaming world where they have experience of building all these amazing things, but they don't have the fashion background. So it's quite interesting cuz it, what we're seeing is lots of collaborations between those, those two worlds. Um, but it does open up a massive opportunity for people who are interested in fashion to, um, To, to change their skillset or to upskill.

Um, so I, I heard somebody say the other day that fashion as an industry has historically been, uh, very elitist. Uh, if you want to become a fashion designer, um, it can be a very expensive thing to do. And even as a fashion design student is an expensive. It's expensive course. I, I, I might, from my understanding, um, but if you were to go down the fashion, the digital fashion route, it, that all changes.

It really opens it up to people from, from anywhere. And so I, I think, you know, it, it's, it's just a massive opportunity for people to upskill in this area. So, from my perspective, when we are doing this, um, I don't have an in-house person, uh, working in digital fashion at the moment. We're, we're, we're a small startup and we have to go out and find, you know, experts in this area.

Um, but I would love it if, if, um, you know, graduates had had learned how to do this and were coming to me and offering up their, their capabilities in this area. I think it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's still quite an untapped area and you could really get, get ahead of the game if you upskill in that. Um, I mean, I guess sort of separate to that from, from our perspective as, as a, a small startup, which I, I think, you know, a lot of people are interested in working in startups.

We're we're early, very early. But really what we are looking at is more of their sort of, um, Uh, sort of different skill sets around, uh, a adaptability and taking the initiative and, uh, having ideas and, and finding out ways to just go and make those things happen, um, which is very appealing, I think. But, you know, working in startups really does give people the opportunity to be able to do that, whereas if you go into big business, those opportunities are much fewer and far between and tend to come when you're a bit further down, down the line.

So, um, When I'm interviewing people to come into, into my business, I'm really looking at whether they are the sort of people that can adapt to change and accept that things move very, very fast and be prepared to do things that might not be outside of a job description. Um, and just, you know, really sort of, um, embrace the opportunity that startup world brings.

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Scott:

Yeah, it's definitely a very different world working in startup to working in a big corporate. Um, but it does give you the opportunities you say, to be creative, both from a design perspective but also a technology perspective. And it sounds to me like if there's anybody listening right now who is in education and is playing with this technology and has interesting ideas, you would love to hear from them to find out, you know, what, how they're thinking about it and how they're thinking about what they could bring to that space.

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Gayle:

Yeah, and I do actively speak to, to universities. I mean, I, I, I have an academic background. I kind of, you know, I understand how it, how it works within universities, and we are, we are working with a number of universities specifically for that purpose because the ideas are there and people want to get experience.

And, um, I just think, yes, tap me up. I'm, I'm here. 

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Scott:

You heard it here, definitely tap up if you have those ideas. So change intact slightly and onto the, the Graduate Fashion week. Um, could you talk us through the process that you went through for your collaboration with the Graduate Fashion Week? From creating the collections, using waste materials, and then developing the virtual collections with AR and the NFT ownership side of things.

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Gayle:

Yeah, so it flows really nicely into this sort of working with graduates and universities. So Graduate Fashion Week is a, a kind of an organisation that helps, uh, fashion talent get jobs in industry after they graduate. And they have an event every year called Graduate Fashion Week where they showcase, uh, the talent that's just, just finishing their degrees.

Um, and it's, it's an amazing sort of, uh, you know, event and really exciting place to be. Um, so we worked with them to, to run a competition for final year fashion design students to create physical collections only using waste materials or secondhand clothes. So they were fully upcycled collections. Um, and we, um, then catwalk those collections at graduate fashion week.

So we had a really amazing catwalk show of these sustainable, um, garments. And, and those garments are now for sale on the app as well. So we've kind of gone all the way through. Um, but the second aspect of the competition was to, to select three winners that would see their physical garments then turned into digital garments.

And this was really exciting for, for the students because you know that that's not something they've been asked. To consider before, and actually we asked them in their physical design process to consider what would the digital version of this be? Um, would it just be a replica of the physical thing or do you want something different to happen to it when it's turned into a, into a digital garment?

So, so we ran the competition. We then, we then had a, a judging panel, which crossed sort of traditional fashion. So we had a. Fashion designer who focuses very much on sustainable fashion, a sustainable fashion sort of advocate, and a digital fashion designer to help us decide which of these garments would best translate into a digital garment afterwards.

So we then created those and we created Snapchat filter to go with those. So you go to UNTAGGED Snapchat, uh, channel you can try on those garments. Now they're there, they're, they're available for free. And then the final bit was to then release those garments as NFTs. Um, and that. Also brings the new challenge about how, how do you do that?

Bearing in mind what I said earlier about people not really yet fully understanding this world or having digital wallets, so we then had to find a way to do that that made all of that really easy, almost hid it from people. So we've worked with a, with a partner, um, called Open Format, who have sort of built the, sort of the, the backends for that.

And as you go through the process of claiming your NFT. They create the digital wallet for you. You don't need to do any of that sort of slightly tricky onboarding that, that it can be sometimes. And, and then it's done. And then you have your, you have your NFT, um, uh, there in, in your digital wallet.

So yeah, we've gone through, we've gone through the full, the full process with, with students and now releasing that to, to the general public. Yeah. 

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Scott:

That's awesome. And I really like the fact that you've, especially at the end of that, you, you're starting to simplify that process as well of connecting people with the potential for web three as well, because it's, it's, it's taking away that complexity that people actually need.

Uh, it sounds like an amazing project as well. That's. Really touching all the, all the different bases. Uh, yeah. Moving on to the next question. How can digital fashion contribute to reducing consumption and waste within the industry? You know, it feels like it's obvious that it's not creating actual materials that are getting wasted, but how do you see it having a longer term impact on the reduction in.

Physical material that's created and energy that's wasted. 

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Gayle:

Yeah, there's a couple of areas. So, so there's the area we've, we've talked about about this. This idea that maybe digital clothes could replace physical clothes in some context in the future. And actually, I. Young people. I, I've seen a, a survey that was done with young people and, and a significant proportion of them could envisage a world where they might buy fewer new clothes if there were more digital clothes available to them.

You know, if you imagine if you're spending 50% of your waking time in the digital world, Does that mean you could buy 50% fewer new clothes? I mean, it, it'd be interesting to think that it could, it could get to that point. I, I would love to think it gets to that point. Maybe not quite that far, but I do believe a significant proportion of our wardrobes will be digital compared to physical in the future.

And actually I don't think it's that far ahead. Yeah. Even in five years it could be happening. Um, so that's the sort of area that we are playing in. But actually from a, from a fashion industry process perspective, Um, the creation of digital garments is really interesting in reducing waste in the traditional process.

So, so one part of, um, the sort of fashion creation process is, is making samples. Um, so someone will design a, a garment then, then they'll make samples of that garment, then they might need changing them, make more samples. And this whole sort of sample process uses a huge amount of, of material. And those samples.

Then sometimes they might get sold in sample sales, but a lot of them are just sitting there as waste. Creating digital garments could, in theory, take out that sampling process or massively cut it down. So even if you, you don't like the idea of wearing digital clothes, the idea that you can use this technology for making sort of physical clothes as well, I think is, is really interesting.

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Scott:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to, to digitise the prototype prototyping phase effectively and be able to re reduce the number of steps required to even test out what a garment looks like. Instantaneously starts to remove a lot of the potential waste. And as you say, I'm also fascinated by the thought that, you know, one day there might be 50% of your items of clothing are digital and it doesn't seem that crazy.

As you say, we're spending most of our time in digital worlds and hopefully still spending a lot of time in the real world as well, but it doesn't seem that crazy to think that one day we will have. A huge number of outfits and filters and ways of representing ourselves online that are, that are digital as opposed to being physical.

Um, which is really, yeah, it's really interesting way that things could go. 

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Gayle:

I think the point about all of it is, It's all, it's all clothes, it's all fashion. And I, I think it's, it, it's a historical thing to try to separate them into digital worlds and physical worlds because it's just, it's just, it's just a way of expressing yourself and th those sort of barriers and descriptions will, will go and will change.

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Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. And touching on NFTs again, how, how do you see them impacting the traditional, uh, Fashion world, will it be exclusive to those like yourselves that are looking into the digital fashion area? Or do you see more traditional fashion houses effectively embracing digital ownership, whether it's NFTs or not, but digital ownership of assets as well?

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Gayle:

Yeah, the, the NFT sort of area is really useful and interesting, and it's, it is already been embraced by luxury fashion houses, actually, um, excuse me, as a way of authenticating a purchase. So if, if anybody's ever tried to buy, let's say, a luxury handbag on a secondhand site, um, You're always worried about whether it's the real deal or not, and people might still have a receipt for it if they're lucky, or a certificate that came with the original purchase, but often they won't, and you just don't really know.

So then things get sent to authenticators for them to check it, and it's just laborious and not always. It doesn't always work. So the idea that when you buy a luxury item alongside that you get an NFT, which, which proves that authenticity. And then when you go on to pass it on, you've got, you've still, the NFT gets passed on with it, um, is, is really great for luxury houses and, and, and is, is becoming a big, a big, and actually for luxury resale platforms, I think that will be a really, you know, they do the authentication, they.

Get, give the NFT to alongside the physical garment. And then every time that gets sold on the, the NFT gets passed on, on with it. Um, so, so there's that. But then alongside that luxury fashion, houses are embracing the notion of digital, um, Garments to wear as well. So, you know, they're the ones that are at the forefront of a lot of this actually.

So there's been a lot of activity with platforms like Roblox, Fortnite we mentioned already, and a number of other games where these houses are creating collections. They're not transportable, but, but they're still seeing that. They must believe that that ultimately will be, and they're looking at, um, Making collections for Metaverses as well.

So they definitely see it coming and it's great to see that they're embracing it and, and just testing things out. Nobody really knows how it's, how it's all gonna go, but it's great to see that, that they're trying stuff. 

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Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. It's good to see the experimentation that's taken that's almost being embraced, which, you know, fantastic to see.

And I guess that leads on quite nicely to my final question, which is, you know, thinking about the future and where experimentation takes us, what are you most excited about the future of, well, digital fashion and that combination of traditional and digital fashion. 

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Gayle:

Yeah, I mean it's pretty obvious what my answer's gonna be cause it's all about sustainability.

Um, so for me, if this is a way of cutting down our consumption, Um, then hallelujah. We need something to change. We've got to drive a cultural shift in the way that we consume things, not just clothes things. Um, and I do, I do genuinely believe that digital fashion is gonna help to, to accelerate that and, and make it a reality.

I think the way we dress ourselves in 10 years time is going to be very, very different and much more sustainable than, than it is currently. 

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Scott:

Fantastic. Perfect note to end on. Well, thank you very much for talking today. Really fascinating. I'm very excited to see what happens with your business. I think it's really interesting and I think you are on the cusp of some very interesting times around what digital fashion can do.

So thank you very much for joining us today. Amazing. Thanks, Scott. Cheers. Thank you very much. And if you would like, you can also share your socials and your website. 

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Gayle:

Oh, oh, I will do so. Download the app that's UNTAGGED fashion in the App Store. We are only on iOS at the moment and our website and um, Instagram is at UNTAGGED fashion.

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Scott:

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us today.

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