Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Absolutely delighted to welcome a longtime friend and colleague, Luke Howell, who's the founder of Hope Solutions. Thank you very much for joining, uh, the hundo crew for, um, CareerCon, all about climate, um, and sustainability. Um, wanted to kick off with, um, a brief introduction from you, um, obviously about Hope Solutions and what you do, um, and then also a little bit about, um, your background too.

Luke Howell: No worries. Yeah, nice to be here and thank you for the invitation. Um, uh, so, yeah, I am the founder and director of Hope Solutions. Uh, we are a sustainability consultancy, um, that works across the kind of music, media and entertainment sphere. Um, so we have clients that range from artists, um, through to, uh, record labels promoters, festivals, um, film and TV companies, uh, you name it, we're probably involved in it somewhere. Um, yeah, we've worked on some pretty exciting projects over the last few years. Um, so I, I set the company up, um, it was, uh, originally it was just, just me, um, working as a kind of freelancer, um, and then over the years moved into, uh, Bigger projects, which requires more people, more time, more resource, that kind of thing. Um, so yeah, now have a team, um, with five, five, six full time members of the team and, and, uh, one or two, um, casual freelancers who drop in who are subject matter experts on particular things, whether that's energy transport and that kind of stuff, and we'll parachute them in for certain projects. Um, Uh, and we've been working, uh, as you know, Esther on some projects with people like Coldplay, Glastonbury Festival, Warner Music Group, Live Nation, Netflix, um, and a whole kind of host of others.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Yeah, no, it's very cool. And I've been around witnessing it grow from the beginning. So, uh, so yeah, it's nice. I think that one of the things we were talking about, obviously, before we came on line, um, was the, um, actually quite surprising lack of diversity and inclusion, um, in the sustainability space. Um, I know that obviously, hopefully it was just.Got its B Corp status as well. Um, and that's kind of a key factor, um, for diversity in the, in the industry. But I think one of the things that, um, I wanted to really obviously for our audience, um, was to learn a little bit about, um, your background, um, and how My background? From a very non traditional, uh, very non traditional space.

Luke Howell: Yeah, yeah. Uh, so the, in order to, I guess, do it just, I'll have to go right Right back. Um, so I was born in, born into a circus. Um, so my parents, uh, owned and operated a traveling circus. So I, I was born, um, into that, uh, and lived on the road in a truck. I didn't have a house till I was 11 years old. Um, and with them, I toured all over the UK and Europe. Um, but, uh, They were really early adopters of sort of principles of sustainability, you know, so my, my dad, you know, who, who, um, you know, you know, well, um, he decided in like 1988 to get rid of the generators that are running the, the show, um, and invested in solar panels and batteries, which was pretty unique and pretty fringe at the time.

But never look back from there, you know, started running the show, uh, using alternative energy, um, and just was curious about that whole, um, development of those kind of things. So, started using biofuels where they were available and when he could get hold of them, uh, for the trucks, um, did like waste segregation long before it was kind of normal practice.Um, So I grew up around people who just did this stuff as normal and, you know, went around delivering, uh, you know, kind of high quality entertainment projects, um, in a sustainable way as if it was just common practice. So I didn't really know any different. And then, uh, went out into the wider world when I was in my kind of late teens to work on people's festivals and that kind of and was very surprised that, um, more wasn't being done. So I've kind of achieved my goal in a way. I set out to become an accountant. Um, To, to rebel against this kind of radical upbringing that I had, uh, and ended up becoming an accountant.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Is that the circular economy or is that?

Luke Howell: Yeah. Yeah. It's the, it's the false, definitely circular something.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: One of the, interesting things, um, obviously for me, when, when we first started working together was exactly what you said. You actually didn't know how to do it differently. Um, so that, and I, I've always found that really interesting that a large part of, I think the struggle. With things like sustainability is because we've forgotten things that actually generations before used to know, you know, certainly Grandparents, you know, great grandparents, they used to just recycle and save things and be energy efficient because it was necessary and it's just the way you did things. And I think over, you know, that kind of proliferation now of just, um, consumer, you know, waste, um, has just become like the, you know, the normal and, and obviously from, from a Gen Z perspective, which is, you know, Um, obviously our, the audience, you know, the, that we work with, obviously at hundo, as you know, um, for me, it was around going like the generation that is now left with the worst excesses of the previous, you know, couple of generations who have allowed plastic pollution, you know, everything to kind of really, um, become, you know, kind of extinction level threatening.

Um, it's sort of going like. They also have the least access to the skills based training, um, and learning that they need. Um, and I think a lot of it can be quite depressing if you want to sit with it for long enough. Um, certainly, you know, with, with the kind of the combination, I guess I wanted to talk a bit more about was around the intersection of music, media, and entertainment, you know, festivals and events, artists, musicians, um, to provide a bit more of a hopeful approach to it, um, you know, with some practical elements behind it. And I guess, um, just interested because you sit at quite an interesting intersection, um, on that, just wanted to kind of hear more from you, um, your thoughts on, on how, I guess, how artists how the music media entertainment industry can play such a pivotal role um, because of their ability to amplify the messaging so effectively.

Luke Howell: Yeah, for sure. It's, um, you know, one of the things I think that fascinates me most about the space that we kind of operate in is, you know, it's one thing to do the behind the scenes, nuts and bolts, you know, operational stuff, you know, like, let's get energy, you know, switch from, uh, you know, over to a green tariff, or let's get people to use alternative fuel. So that's kind of like nuts and bolts stuff, as I would call it. But the thing that's really exciting and interesting is when you get to work on projects where, um, you know, Household names, be they artists or festivals are willing to use their platform to talk about a topic, you know, whether that's climate, environment, social justice, you know, um, those kinds of things, because. That's where you start to get mass engagement and make it accessible to people. You know, a lot of the nuts and bolts things I was just talking about come, you know, you. They can be expensive. They can be inaccessible because you have to be a company of a certain size or you have to have certain qualifications, training, et cetera.

But, um, the sort of things that I think, um, you know, certainly going forward and we're seeing a little bit of this now with, you know, um, particularly with artists, you know, and to a degree, I guess, film and TV stars and some sports personalities as well. But really. Taking some ownership of trying to understand topics like climate change or understand topics like, um, you know, female reproductive rights, you know, that kind of stuff and and using their ability to communicate to mass audiences that these are things that every single person can engage with on some level, you know, you don't have to, um, as an individual, you know, might not be taking a flight regularly. So, It's not about so much about that, but it's about like, what are the sort of micro things that you can do at home or in your workplace, you know, decisions about, um, uh, you know, whether you get a, Uh, a takeaway coffee every day, or whether you buy a reasonable cup and, you know, get that refilled, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so there's, there's all kinds of different ways that when, whether it doesn't, it doesn't just have to be an artist, no festivals, any kind of public entity can use that platform to further the discussion. Um, but also use that discussion with the policy makers, you know, who are the ones that. Kind of need to do more to put a bit of, um, pressure, you know, back on where it needs to be. Cause I think big businesses and governments have made us all as individuals feel like we have this huge burden of responsibility and we all have a little bit of responsibility. Sure. But actually the burden of responsibility is on them and we need to, you know, turn that around a little bit and push it back on them and I think entertainment has a really powerful, um, uh, uh, kind of Say in, in, in, in that conversation.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Yeah. Well, it's a bit like, I think of it like live aid and, you know, that kind of like, it's always those moments. It's the exactly what you say. It's the regulatory frameworks that need to be changed very, very rapidly. Um, that, but it is, it's like having that kind of mass, um, mass audience, that mass appeal, you know, helps, helps get the message across. Yeah. And I wanted to, some of, some of what you said that was really interesting. And I guess I wanted to drill down. Um, what are, in your view, kind of like, what are some of the key Um, key skills, um, you know, and types of roles, um, that young people can be, um, starting to think about, um, working in the, not, not just in the sustainability space, but kind of, you know, across, I guess we're not asking the question very well, but it's more around like, for me, I, I see sustainability skills as just like a foundational skill for every person now.

Luke Howell: Yeah.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: So, so it's kind of like, yeah, looking at, yeah, just a bit more, you know, from your experience, you know, with the, with the work you do, um, you know. How can young people start to think about careers right across the piece?

Luke Howell: Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I think about some of the projects that I work on, and some of the sort of the, the job titles that I get given on those projects, you know, things like head of sustainability or strategic sustainability lead, and they're, they're totally made up titles, you know, as lots of job titles are, um, but Really interestingly, you know, uh, corporate level, um, we're starting to see C suites kind of create a CSO, uh, role, a chief sustainability officer role. So there are pathways now opening up to go into those kinds of C suite jobs that definitely weren't, weren't there historically, but in terms of, um, entry level stuff, you know, as you said, sustainability in a way shouldn't Really be a job and not of itself. You know, sustainability should be a consideration in every job description for every role, you know, whether that's in, um, HR, manufacturing in AI, whatever it is, you can look at all of the deliverables against those sorts of jobs through a sustainability lens.

And then I often think of sustainability as efficiency and resilience. And, um, so if you take the principles of efficiency and resilience into any Role, they become more sustainable by default. Um, you know, so if you're working as a developer in tech, or if you're working as a creative designer, you know, creating artwork or music or whatever it might be, you can still think about like. How much time, how much money, uh, what equipment am I using? What resources am I using? All that kind of sort of stuff. And I think, I do think we'll get to a point where those sustainability considerations are more commonplace in, in job descriptions. Um, but I also think if you're interested in sustainability, there's no reason why you, um, you can't go into a job role and it might be.

Chief engineer or, or even just, you know, like whatever the job title is, but deliver that job in a sustainable way. Um, and I think, uh, That, I think that's where things need to get to. I think they, they will get there, but, um, there's, you know, the reality I think is at the moment there, um, There's still relatively few out and out sustainability roles, um, in big organisations or even small ones, and probably less so in small organisations. Um, so a lot of people end up having it tacked on to the side of other jobs they're, they're doing. Um, and you know, and I think the, in terms of the, the skills and knowledge, uh, know that you would need, there's, there's a whole range of. Qualifications that you can get, um, around like greenhouse gas accounting and, um, you know, social value impact measurements and those kinds of things.

And some of them are really worth while looking at and doing, um, through organisations like ISO, IEMA and universities, colleges, etc. Um, uh, or hundo platform. Um, um, but, um, you know, there's also a whole load of, I guess, what I would almost call. Or what would have been described to me when I was at school is like, you know, life skills, you know, like, um, things that, uh, you know, critical thinking, um, knowing when to question looking at, uh, proposals or, or, um, suppliers and just asking questions around. Right. You've got this, you've got a certification that says you're carbon neutral or, or, or whatever it might be. Can you prove that? Can you give me some evidence, you know, to, towards that? So just kind of like, um, yeah, in a way it's, it's a, it's like a, I guess it's quite a critical role, you know, both critical for the planet, but in terms of the actual, you end up critiquing a lot of stuff. Um, and. Um, developing those kind of critical and analytical skills, um, I think will help in lots of different roles, but certainly in sustainability roles.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: And it's quite, it is quite challenging because on the one hand, you know, it's also, I think it's an emerging, um, area of expertise and, and, and correct me if you think that's not the, you know, that's not a fair thing to say, but it's just like, there's a lot of bad practice that's been allowed to kind of, you know, go right. Huge amount of greenwashing and social washing we have now. So that's, another joy um, but it's, you know, I just kind of wondered like, you know, for young people kind of wading through this, um, you know, new emerging and quite complex space. Um, yeah. How do you start to tell the difference?

Luke Howell: It's honestly, it is one of the biggest challenges and I think, you know, like you'll get this reference, you know, the, the, uh, People used to talk about how pop will eat itself. I think we're in a position now where sustainability is going to eat itself because the, um, the landscape is evolving and maturing and that's a great thing. But by virtue of doing so, uh, there's more and more entities and organisations now offering solutions, services, accreditation, certifications, pathways for it, and navigating that is difficult even for seasoned professionals like me.

And so, yeah, for people coming into the space, um, it can be a challenge. And I think that's where, um, Certainly I found, uh, you know, joining networks, you know, they don't even know, you know, whether they're professional or, or kind of more social. Um, that's just so you can talk to other people about, about this sort of stuff because it's. It can be, it can also sometimes be quite an isolating sort of job as well. You know, like, uh, some, some of the big, big organisations have sustainability teams and that instantly makes you think, Oh, there must be 10, 15 or more of them. And then maybe like one or two people, you know, running the kind of sustainability division for an entire multi billion pound corporation. Um, so it can be quite a, uh, sort of isolating space, you know, as well. Um, Which is why I would encourage people to join networks, you know, um, and, and just, yeah, participate in the conversation with as many people as you can, because that will help, um, sometimes may not help with clarity, but it will certainly help you feel less isolated in the space and it will certainly help, um, uh, help you understand like what others, others are up to. And staying

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: up to date with things because it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke Howell: Yeah. And, and, and go to reputable sources, you know, uh, you know, organisations who have, um, Uh, kind of reputation for quality information, you know, so, and that doesn't mean you have to become a guardian reader, you know, anything like that, you know, but definitely, um, there's, you know, there are a handful of websites, uh, that give good, good updates on, on sustainability news, um, uh, and that kind of stuff. But, uh, yeah, it's, oh, and again, going back to that being critical thing is always just ask yourself, like, you know, what is the intention behind this? Story or, you know, that kind of thing.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Which, like you said, is a general skill. You know, it is a general life skill. All of its own. I guess, for me, the sort of finally just, you know, touching on a lot of the work that, you know, um, Hope Solutions and, you know, and hundo are sort of starting to look at collaborating more on, uh, one of the sort of staggering, uh, couple of statistics for me, uh, which you'll have to, um, just make sure that I wrote them down correctly. Um, the sustainability, the sustainability industry is the second least diverse. Uh, how many did you say? Sorry. I didn't,

Luke Howell: uh, so according to a recent study that was, uh, undertaken by NUS, um, uh, and IEMA, the Institute for Environment Management and Assessment, uh, second least diverse industry out of 202 professions that were surveyed. Um, yeah. Which is pretty damning. Yeah. Um,

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: and you, and you and you yourself are an outlier. Because of your background, you know, in terms of like that, that sort of like, so it's been, I think it's quite interesting the, um, you know, I think for me, that feels like a real focal point.

Luke Howell: Yeah, massively. It's, um, you know, and I think, uh, the other statistic that goes alongside that is the, um, uh, Only, uh, 3.1 percent of environmental professionals, um, identify, uh, as coming from some kind of, um, some form of minority background. Um, so it's, you know, outwardly it's quite an inaccessible industry, even though we keep hearing statistics that it's the biggest growth industry, you know, in the universe. Yeah. Because of all the, the, the, the. The global challenges and all the different, you know, green tech and clean tech sort of, um, startups and solutions that are out there. So we're being told on the one hand that there's more jobs and more opportunities than ever and on the other hand It's going well, where are they going? Who's getting them? I

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: mean, it is the grand irony and it's also the hundo challenge, isn't it? You know, it's going like that the generation most exposed to the worst excesses of climate disruption Have the least access to the skills based learning that they need, you know, and I think that's it One of

Luke Howell: my biggest frustrations, and I'm sure this comes up with hundo a lot, is the amount of job applications I've seen for what is effectively a relatively new Industry or new roles within companies asking for like minimum five years experience. It's like, nope, no one's got five years experience, you know? So how, how can you possibly have a role that's literally just been created in the last few weeks that asked you for five years experience in an equivalent role, because there hasn't been an equivalent role. I mean, it's

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: the age old. Yeah. It's a bit like web three, you know, everyone's an expert since yesterday. So it's, and I think it's, I think it's fair to say it's like with the exception of people like yourself and you are the absolute exception to the rule. Purely because, you know, your dad made that choice back in 1988, you know, and it's kind of like, and wasn't it, yeah, it was actually a massive early pioneer, so I do think it's, um, no, yeah, I think it's interesting, I think, for us, what I'm most excited about going forward is, obviously, thanks to the support from Coldplay, um, the ability for us, um, to now start to collaborate on, um, how do we start to create. Um, more opportunities for young people, um, not just in the sustainability space, but in the industries that they're actually interested in, you know, fashion, music, media, entertainment, film, TV, um, that's put much more kind of, um, you know, sort of bringing the creativity and the science part, uh, together.

Luke Howell: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I think we've talked about this a lot, you know, throughout the years, you know, that intersection of art and science, you know, is, is critical to, to, to. Advancing things and changing things. I think one of the really interesting things to know as well, from my own experience of, um, you know, the kind of sustainability landscape and is, I can't remember if I said already, but, um, I, I didn't go, I dropped out of college. I didn't go to university, you know, like I'm, uh, and I have, The knowledge that I grew up with, you know, by virtue of this kind of amazing experience, you know, from my parents, but I, I'm self taught effectively. Um, and there's another, um, a woman I know who runs a sustainability consultancy who's, who's exactly the same. She's self taught. Um, and yet. The work that we do, the work that she does, you know, she's been working with, um, COP and, you know, these kinds of massive, um, um, kind of global projects. Uh, that to me signifies that, that, that if I can find a way into this world and, and, and she can find a way into this kind of world, uh, at the levels that we're working at, anyone can. Um, and I think because when it comes to, you know, There are certain things where having a technical qualification can be useful.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: Of course.

Luke Howell: Um, you know, as, as, as with lots of other industries, but actually this space, I think, you know, you having the desire, the drive, the passion to go, I know I do want to do something that's meaningful, make a change. Um, Is probably as as useful, um, and increasing, I think more starting to be more recognized, you know, than other types of roles in other places. And I think that, uh, the thing that I've said to other young people who are kind of coming into this space is that. It doesn't matter if you change course or drop out of college or decide it's not for you. You know, there's, there are resources out there and other stuff that's being developed with, um, you know, the, the project you just mentioned that is kind of, um, the hundo are leading in support, but it has support from the kind of, um, uh, you know, people like Coldplay and the music industry to give access skills learning. And you. You don't have to go to university to get that. Actually, some of the people I've met who've got PhDs are clueless on the topic, you know, very academically.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: qualified,

Luke Howell: but actually can't apply that to a real world scenario.

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: It's a completely different skill set than I think it is. Yeah, no. So, um, well, I have found this conversation, um, super useful. Um, thank you very much. Um, and, um, yeah, for anyone who wants to find out more, obviously they can find you. On linkedin and i'm around

Luke Howell: yeah

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: On site at Glastonbury in june

Luke Howell: so indeed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, absolutely. Yeah. No, thank you for inviting me to chat Yeah, it's been really nice to talk forward

Esther O'Callaghan OBE: to uh, yeah looking forward to carrying on working. Thanks. Like

Luke Howell: awesome. All right. Catch you later